SqueezeCenter 7.4 beta listening

Pacio · « **Reply #100 on:** 14 Feb 2009, 06:35 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 14 Feb 2009, 06:16 pm

Quote from: Pacio on 14 Feb 2009, 06:12 pm
Hello everybody,
sorry if this is a stupid question and forgive me if I missed the explanation in the long thread here above, but I have the following issue.
I have an analog modded SB3 with v. 15 firmware. I would love to stay with this version also with the new SqueezeCenter 7.4, since I only have one source and I could invert the polarity of my speakers cables. Question is: as soon as I connect the SB3 to my pc with the new server, it tries to do a sw update. I cannot do anything but shut it down. Should I try anything else? Has anybody another analog modded SB3 with v.15 AND the new 7.4?
In the end, am I so dummy??

Thanks for your help!

Do you have a copy of Mgalusha's firmware selector tool? Send him a PM. I think the tool is still out there.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58778.0

Yes, I have it. Do you suggest let it perform the update and turn it back afterwards to ver. 15? Should it keep this version?

zybar · « **Reply #101 on:** 14 Feb 2009, 06:37 pm »

Quote from: Pacio on 14 Feb 2009, 06:35 pm

Yes, I have it. Do you suggest let it perform the update and turn it back afterwards to ver. 15? Should it keep this version?

Yes.

Pacio · « **Reply #102 on:** 14 Feb 2009, 06:54 pm »

Thank you so much, Sirs.

Have a great weekend!

Pacio

Jampot · « **Reply #103 on:** 14 Feb 2009, 10:02 pm »

Pacio,
If you use Alien BBC plug-in you may want to reconsider using Squeeze Centre 7.4 with Firmware 15 - I had no end of trouble and gave it up.

On the other hand if it works let me know what you did

Jim

Pacio · « **Reply #104 on:** 14 Feb 2009, 10:14 pm »

Sure Jim, I'll let you know!

Cheers,
Pacio

Philistine · « **Reply #105 on:** 15 Feb 2009, 01:50 am »

Quote from: Jampot on 14 Feb 2009, 10:02 pm

Pacio,
If you use Alien BBC plug-in you may want to reconsider using Squeeze Centre 7.4 with Firmware 15 - I had no end of trouble and gave it up.

On the other hand if it works let me know what you did

Jim

This has caught me out in the past - beta versions of SqueezeCentre not being compatible with Alien BBC. More recently when they go live with a SC revision Alien BBC catches up with it immediately or very quickly, I'm still using 7.3.2 until the plugin is supported. If anyone is able to get Alien BBC fully functioning with 7.4 please keep all of us in the loop

Jampot · « **Reply #106 on:** 15 Feb 2009, 07:22 am »

Quote

beta versions of SqueezeCentre not being compatible with Alien BBC

Works fine for me providing I use current firmware. It was just the v15 that screwed it up.

Other parts of my system are compromised at the moment so I am running with the SB out of phase.

Never the less, if I can gave it all - I want it

Jim

Pacio · « **Reply #107 on:** 15 Feb 2009, 05:11 pm »

Sorry guys the trivial question, but I'm trying to clear it up once for all.
Do I need to keep ver. 15 firmware on my analog modded SB3 for sonic performances other than because it keeps the receiver in phase, or is it a matter of phase only?
If the latter is true, than I have no problem to flip the speaker cables and maybe I can go for the latest version of Sqeeze Centre and update the firmware, if it's true that the latest software brings sonic improvements as I read in this thread.

Thank you for your input and forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I lost the actual sense of keeping v. 15..

Pacio

Jampot · « **Reply #108 on:** 15 Feb 2009, 06:01 pm »

Pacio,

Flip the cables and let Squeeze Centre update your SB3 firmware to the latest version. The only reason for keeping v15 is to invert phase.

Jim

Pacio · « **Reply #109 on:** 15 Feb 2009, 06:04 pm »

Thank you Jim, will do!

Pacio

jkelly · « **Reply #110 on:** 19 Feb 2009, 01:48 am »

Well after 2 weeks of 7.4 - I have gone back to 6.2 and FW 15.
Can't exactly put it into words but FW 15 feels less electric, a little
drier, stronger sounding or more solid in the lower octaves with a little
more soundstage magic.

For me I listen more to the music with FW 15 and struggle to find
the magic under the 7.4 FW.

FWIW,

Jeff

Klaas · « **Reply #111 on:** 19 Feb 2009, 11:02 am »

Has anybody an idea why the new version should sound better? I tested it and it sounds different. My only guess would be that the conversion from any format to a PCM stream is handled better by the PC than by a SB3/Transporter. In the end of the day, the stream must be converted to PCM so it transfers some load to the PC.

I the conversion to PCM is no magic and I cannot believe that Logitech has any revolutionary algorithm for it. I tried it out with the brutefirDRC plugin after the flac has been processed for room correction and converted the stream to PCM with SOX. The sound difference was still there.

Would be happy to understand why the sound is different.

Regards Klaas

MerlinWerks · « **Reply #112 on:** 19 Feb 2009, 02:48 pm »

Quote from: Klaas on 19 Feb 2009, 11:02 am

Has anybody an idea why the new version should sound better? I tested it and it sounds different. My only guess would be that the conversion from any format to a PCM stream is handled better by the PC than by a SB3/Transporter. In the end of the day, the stream must be converted to PCM so it transfers some load to the PC.

I the conversion to PCM is no magic and I cannot believe that Logitech has any revolutionary algorithm for it. I tried it out with the brutefirDRC plugin after the flac has been processed for room correction and converted the stream to PCM with SOX. The sound difference was still there.

Would be happy to understand why the sound is different.

Regards Klaas

You may want to have a look at this thread HERE...

ted_b · « **Reply #113 on:** 19 Feb 2009, 03:09 pm »

Quote from: MerlinWerks on 19 Feb 2009, 02:48 pm

Quote from: Klaas on 19 Feb 2009, 11:02 am
Has anybody an idea why the new version should sound better? I tested it and it sounds different. My only guess would be that the conversion from any format to a PCM stream is handled better by the PC than by a SB3/Transporter. In the end of the day, the stream must be converted to PCM so it transfers some load to the PC.

I the conversion to PCM is no magic and I cannot believe that Logitech has any revolutionary algorithm for it. I tried it out with the brutefirDRC plugin after the flac has been processed for room correction and converted the stream to PCM with SOX. The sound difference was still there.

Would be happy to understand why the sound is different.

Regards Klaas

You may want to have a look at this thread HERE...

First off, the Slim forum, and Phil in particular, believes that if you can't measure it then it doesn't exist. They are VERY left brain (which is ok, they design the stuff). More importantly for this test, Phil is using a stock SB3 and a rather pedestrian pc card for a DAC. No offense, but if your system isn't resolving enough, you won't hear the differences between MP3 and SACD.

Klaas, personally I think the PCM decoder has improved, and also benefits from more computing horsepower (server side decoding) but I'm just postulating. I hear a difference and it's not subtle (going to 7.4).

Philistine · « **Reply #114 on:** 20 Feb 2009, 12:12 am »

Quote from: ted_b on 19 Feb 2009, 03:09 pm

Quote from: MerlinWerks on 19 Feb 2009, 02:48 pm
Quote from: Klaas on 19 Feb 2009, 11:02 am
Has anybody an idea why the new version should sound better? I tested it and it sounds different. My only guess would be that the conversion from any format to a PCM stream is handled better by the PC than by a SB3/Transporter. In the end of the day, the stream must be converted to PCM so it transfers some load to the PC.

I the conversion to PCM is no magic and I cannot believe that Logitech has any revolutionary algorithm for it. I tried it out with the brutefirDRC plugin after the flac has been processed for room correction and converted the stream to PCM with SOX. The sound difference was still there.

Would be happy to understand why the sound is different.

Regards Klaas

You may want to have a look at this thread HERE...

First off, the Slim forum, and Phil in particular, believes that if you can't measure it then it doesn't exist. They are VERY left brain (which is ok, they design the stuff). More importantly for this test, Phil is using a stock SB3 and a rather pedestrian pc card for a DAC. No offense, but if your system isn't resolving enough, you won't hear the differences between MP3 and SACD.

Klaas, personally I think the PCM decoder has improved, and also benefits from more computing horsepower (server side decoding) but I'm just postulating. I hear a difference and it's not subtle (going to 7.4).

Ted, this was my initial reaction after reading the thread - but as it pans out Phil Leigh is using the SB digital output into an external DAC which consists of a 'highly' modified Music Fidelity 'Triple Threat' (PSU/DAC/Tube Buffer) which then feeds the computer soundcard. To date I recall he's discovered no differences between wired/wireless, Flac/PCM, stock psu/upgraded psu - amongst others. The only real difference he's found so far is Flac/mp3. If the equipment is causing a resolving barrier then I would consider it most likely to be computer soundcard?
One of the proposed tests was to look at 7.4 but so far I don't see that this has been done.

It would also be more relevant to also use a pair of ears in the test - this would help identify any equipment resolving issues that may exist.
Counter to this AC does not have a good track record in accrediting sonic improvements to SqueezeCentre upgrades, only to find out later that it was imaginary. Consequently I'm cautious on some of the improvements that we claim to hear on AC, but not all!

I applaud someone for attempting this, its just a pity that the handful of characters that hang out on the 'audiophile' part of the forum linked are too stuck in their own digital paradigm to have constructive debate with.

Klaas · « **Reply #115 on:** 20 Feb 2009, 08:28 am »

Philistine: what is "AC"?

I wonder about time alignment problems in AudioDiff Maker. In the manual is stated that the recordings are aligned to be compareable, could it be possible that a difference is hidden by this alignment? I am no geek in this and not right or left brain about improvements, I just would like to know how to test the stuff myself.

I have a measurement mic with a decent soundcard for DRC purposes, so I could make some end to end tests myself.

Is it really a good test to record from the digital output without having the amplifier and speakers in between? Of course are the measurements more exact without using a mic but maybe something is lost in the chain?!

ted_b · « **Reply #116 on:** 20 Feb 2009, 11:44 am »

"AC" is this forum, Audio Circle.

tomjtx · « **Reply #117 on:** 22 Feb 2009, 07:13 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 19 Feb 2009, 03:09 pm

Quote from: MerlinWerks on 19 Feb 2009, 02:48 pm
Quote from: Klaas on 19 Feb 2009, 11:02 am
Has anybody an idea why the new version should sound better? I tested it and it sounds different. My only guess would be that the conversion from any format to a PCM stream is handled better by the PC than by a SB3/Transporter. In the end of the day, the stream must be converted to PCM so it transfers some load to the PC.

I the conversion to PCM is no magic and I cannot believe that Logitech has any revolutionary algorithm for it. I tried it out with the brutefirDRC plugin after the flac has been processed for room correction and converted the stream to PCM with SOX. The sound difference was still there.

Would be happy to understand why the sound is different.

Regards Klaas

You may want to have a look at this thread HERE...

First off, the Slim forum, and Phil in particular, believes that if you can't measure it then it doesn't exist. They are VERY left brain (which is ok, they design the stuff). More importantly for this test, Phil is using a stock SB3 and a rather pedestrian pc card for a DAC. No offense, but if your system isn't resolving enough, you won't hear the differences between MP3 and SACD.

Klaas, personally I think the PCM decoder has improved, and also benefits from more computing horsepower (server side decoding) but I'm just postulating. I hear a difference and it's not subtle (going to 7.4).

Ted,

Phil in no way believes that if you can't measure it it doesn't exist.

You should be more careful in the future so that you don't so completely misrepresent someone's philosophy.

Phil is a professional musician and recording engineer.

He has specifically stated that there may well be differences that we can't yet measure.

You have acted very irresponsibly with your statement and you owe Phil an apology.

zybar · « **Reply #118 on:** 22 Feb 2009, 07:23 pm »

Quote from: tomjtx on 22 Feb 2009, 07:13 pm

Quote from: ted_b on 19 Feb 2009, 03:09 pm
Quote from: MerlinWerks on 19 Feb 2009, 02:48 pm
Quote from: Klaas on 19 Feb 2009, 11:02 am
Has anybody an idea why the new version should sound better? I tested it and it sounds different. My only guess would be that the conversion from any format to a PCM stream is handled better by the PC than by a SB3/Transporter. In the end of the day, the stream must be converted to PCM so it transfers some load to the PC.

I the conversion to PCM is no magic and I cannot believe that Logitech has any revolutionary algorithm for it. I tried it out with the brutefirDRC plugin after the flac has been processed for room correction and converted the stream to PCM with SOX. The sound difference was still there.

Would be happy to understand why the sound is different.

Regards Klaas

You may want to have a look at this thread HERE...

First off, the Slim forum, and Phil in particular, believes that if you can't measure it then it doesn't exist. They are VERY left brain (which is ok, they design the stuff). More importantly for this test, Phil is using a stock SB3 and a rather pedestrian pc card for a DAC. No offense, but if your system isn't resolving enough, you won't hear the differences between MP3 and SACD.

Klaas, personally I think the PCM decoder has improved, and also benefits from more computing horsepower (server side decoding) but I'm just postulating. I hear a difference and it's not subtle (going to 7.4).

Ted,

Phil in no way believes that if you can't measure it it doesn't exist.

You should be more careful in the future so that you don't so completely misrepresent someone's philosophy.

Phil is a professional musician and recording engineer.

He has specifically stated that there may well be differences that we can't yet measure.

You have acted very irresponsibly with your statement and you owe Phil an apology.

Tomjtx,

I don't think Ted has acted "Very irresponsibly" in any way. In fact, I think your reply is an over-the-top and melodramatic response to Ted's post and frankly isn't called for and doesn't help the situation at all.

I have no idea what your relationship to Phil is, but if you feel he has been misrepresented, a simple statement is more than adequate. Better yet, why not let Phil post a reply if he has an issue with Ted's perception and opinion.

George

ted_b · « **Reply #119 on:** 22 Feb 2009, 07:32 pm »

This is an excerpt from Phil's thread (stated last week, Feb 15th)
"...However, a spin-off benefit is that the same methodology/tools can be applied to cables, software settings, mains filters - anything actually.
Let's put it this way, if putting $200 feet under my SB made no MEASURABLE difference then I'm not going to put them there..."

Tomjtx,
Sorry to make a comment that somehow you perceive as "irresponsible" but it's not; it's just my perception of the Slim forum and Phil (in this case.) I am NOT saying that Phil is a bad person, is wrong empirically, or is a worse audiophile than I am. I'm just disagreeing with his heavily left brain-oriented approach...but like any opinion, he's allowed to have it. You are more than welcome to disagree....but not welcome to call me irresponsible!

Now let's get this thread back on track please. I see that the bug that affects hirez FLAC-on-the-fly decoding has been worked on diligently (like 15 new posts to that bug report). They expect a fix asap.