Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics

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Stereodude

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Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« on: 28 Jan 2009, 09:01 pm »
I'm thinking to build a subwoofer to use with a ported pair of Neo-2Xs based on the SW-12-04 (or a pair of SW-12-08's) and the Rhythmik A370PEQ DirectServo amp.

I see that the recommended volume per driver is 1.5cu-ft.  I wondered how that value was arrived at.  Is it to target a particular Qtc of the sub (enclosure + driver), or is it based on the slope and starting point of the correction curve in the amp that flattens out the subs response, or something else entirely?  :scratch:

I read through the 12 page long thread on the drivers and amps, but didn't find an answer, or I missed it. 

Thanks!

Danny Richie

Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #1 on: 28 Jan 2009, 10:36 pm »
You'll have to ask Brian the specifics there.

I can tell you that you have a little more flexibility with the air space than with other drivers as the servo takes control over the driver regardless of air space. The 1.5 cubic feet is a minimum recommended size. If you used a 1.8 cubic feet box then the measured output is the same as the amp still made corrections in keeping it linear, but that amp had to add slightly less gain to maintain that linearity.

Stereodude

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Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #2 on: 29 Jan 2009, 01:24 am »
Does that 1.5cu-ft assume a certain level of polyfill in the box, or no polyfill?

Stereodude

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Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #3 on: 29 Jan 2009, 04:33 am »
A few more questions...

- What is the internal box volume displaced by the SW-12-04 or SW-12-08 driver?
- What is the internal box volume displaced by the A370PEQ amp?

rythmik

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Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #4 on: 31 Jan 2009, 06:02 pm »
Servo does not care about physical Qts value as it will create a new Qts value with servo feedback design. The goal here is to create an identical frequency response so that the transfer function is literally cloned.  So you can say our servo feedback will make they have the same Qts value. However, this Qts value is in the range of 0.2 to 0.25. It is very low and means it is very fast bass.

The volume calculation is primarily based on the power output from the power amplifier. We don't want the risk of bottoming out the drivers. It is first determined by simulation, and then adjusted/confirmed by actual enclosures.  SW12-4 and SW-8 are identical drivers in terms of efficiency, although one is 4ohms and the other is 8ohms.  For one SW12-4 and SW12-8, 1.6cu ft is about right. 1.8 cu ft can cause it to over excursion a bit, but is still acceptable. All of these is with assumption that it is driven by a 370WRMS amp. So for a dual kit, each driver only receive 185WRMS power if we stay with A370. That is 40% less in terms of amplitude (power is square of amplitude). Therefore theoretically we need to increase the volume by 40% to make up for it. But that can make it too big and therefore I compromise and proposed 2.0 cu ft.  We have since come up with a H600PEQ model that can deliver 600WRMS power to dual kit and that is 300WRMS for each driver. If you use H600PEQ, you can stay with 1.6 cu ft for each driver. In this case, you pretty much fully utilize the excursion of drivers. For those already bought A370PEQ for their dual kit, there is an easy path to upgrade to H600PEQ as they have the same heatsink. H600 is based on class-H amplification and therefore more efficient.  All of our components are mutli-purpose. I cannot stand the notion that a particualr component is purposely built for a particular application. 

With servo, we can introduce the idea of software abstration into subwoofer. It is very similar to PC video cards. What makes them appear the same to PC, it is the video card driver. What makes all direct servo have similar frequency response? It is the servo feedback. If we can make all of amplifier have the same physical dimension so that they can be drop-in compatible, that will be even better. 

« Last Edit: 31 Jan 2009, 09:15 pm by rythmik »

Stereodude

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Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #5 on: 31 Jan 2009, 06:51 pm »
Thanks for the reply.  Any idea on when the H600PEQ with DirectServo will be available and the pricing?  I don't see it on your website yet, only the non Servo version.

rythmik

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Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #6 on: 31 Jan 2009, 09:17 pm »
Thanks for the reply.  Any idea on when the H600PEQ with DirectServo will be available and the pricing?  I don't see it on your website yet, only the non Servo version.

The servo and nonservo share the same amplifier platform. One can convert one version to another. In short, servo version is available now and their price is same as the nonservo version for now (as a promotion).

Stereodude

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Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #7 on: 31 Jan 2009, 10:54 pm »
I think for a 11' x 9.5' x 9' room for 2.1 use with the Neo 2X's I won't really miss those extra 2.2dB of output with the 600W amp vs the 370W amp for the $$$ difference.   :|

If I should end up in a larger room later and need more output I can always swap in the more powerful amp, or build another matching sub. :wink:

Stereodude

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Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #8 on: 13 Feb 2009, 09:03 pm »
I picked up the two 12" SW-12-08 drivers today from work...  I have few more questions.

1) Is the rubber "gasket" around the edge of the driver intended to be used when they're installed in a box?

2) Is there a minimum distance the drivers should be mounted from each other in order to minimize the affects of their magnetic fields on each other.  In my design they will be mounted back to back on opposing sides of the box.  Per my current plans (not quite set in stone) there will only be ~3" between their vented pole pieces.

3) How much box volume does each driver displace from the enclosure due to the magnet, cone, etc?

m-fine

Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #9 on: 14 Feb 2009, 06:28 pm »
I picked up the two 12" SW-12-08 drivers today from work... 

HUH?  You have extra servo drivers sitting around at work?

Danny Richie

Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #10 on: 14 Feb 2009, 06:41 pm »
Quote
You have extra servo drivers sitting around at work?

I may have shipped them to his business address.

Quote
You have extra servo drivers sitting around at work?

Yes.

Quote
2) Is there a minimum distance the drivers should be mounted from each other in order to minimize the affects of their magnetic fields on each other.  In my design they will be mounted back to back on opposing sides of the box.  Per my current plans (not quite set in stone) there will only be ~3" between their vented pole pieces.

I think that you'll be fine.

Quote
3) How much box volume does each driver displace from the enclosure due to the magnet, cone, etc?

It will take up about .1 cubic feet. Keep in mind though that your through hole gives back air space.

m-fine

Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #11 on: 14 Feb 2009, 06:52 pm »
LOL Danny, of course we expect YOU to have all sorts of extra toys at work! 

Danny Richie

Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #12 on: 14 Feb 2009, 07:02 pm »
Quote
LOL Danny, of course we expect YOU to have all sorts of extra toys at work! 


No, Stereodude said... "I picked up the two 12" SW-12-08 drivers today from work... "

Stereodude

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Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #13 on: 14 Feb 2009, 07:54 pm »
HUH?  You have extra servo drivers sitting around at work?

No, but I typically have things I order online shipped to my work address.  They arrived on Thursday when I was out of town and then I picked them when I stopped in work yesterday.

m-fine

Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #14 on: 15 Feb 2009, 12:11 am »
So have you built the sub yet?  Listening impressions?  Pictures?   :D

Stereodude

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Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #15 on: 15 Feb 2009, 12:19 am »
So have you built the sub yet?  Listening impressions?  Pictures?   :D

:nono: I think your jumping the gun a little.  I haven't even gotten the amp yet.  :lol:

I will probably take off a few days in the new few weeks to build it.

m-fine

Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #16 on: 15 Feb 2009, 01:08 am »
Hey, I didn't come here looking for excuses!   :lol:

Stereodude

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Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #17 on: 15 Feb 2009, 01:17 am »
Hey, I didn't come here looking for excuses!   :lol:

So, why exactly did you come here?  :scratch:

m-fine

Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #18 on: 15 Feb 2009, 02:06 am »
Hey, I didn't come here looking for excuses!   :lol:

So, why exactly did you come here?  :scratch:

To get listening impressions and pictures of your opposed driver servo sub.

Stereodude

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Re: Servo SW-12-0_ Sealed Box Characteristics
« Reply #19 on: 15 Feb 2009, 02:55 am »
To get listening impressions and pictures of your opposed driver servo sub.

Well, I think you're going to have to wait a little while for that to happen.  :P