Room tretaments from Magnaplaner owners

Minn Mark · « **on:** 28 Jan 2009, 08:23 pm »

Hi All,
Apologies that I didn't look through the multiple pages to see if this thread had already been started. I am a relatively new Maggie 3.6R owner, and am happy to hear advice from other owners as to room treatments that work 'best' for these spkrs. I am innocent to the extent that I would ask, "What is better, a 'live' room, or a really 'dead' room? What about live-end, dead-end combinations?

My current room is approx 25 x 13 x 7 ( I know its pretty nodal). I am using Audioby Van Alstine front end with CD, phono and Cassette. I also listen to 2 ch DVD and TV. My listening position is about 10' from the center of the speakers, placed about 8 ft apart, slightly angled in, with the ribbons on the inside. The spkrs are about 30 " from the side walls, and 40" from the rear wall, facing down the long axis of the room. The wall behind, and to my right are cinderblock (I am in my basement). The rear wall is sheet rock, uninsulated with the stairway opening. The wall to my left is paneled, uninsulated, with a wooden door into the remainder of the basement. The ceiling is sheetrock, uninsulated. The floor is vinyl over concrete. I have a plush listening chair, and a sofa on the wall to my left. To my right are two Boltz record racks, filled, with books, etc on top, standing almost to the 7' ceiling. The Maggies are on their supplied stands, with no footers, spikes, etc. .

Overall, I am happy with the soundstage and imaging. I seem to hear a bit of a mid-bass "hump", expressed as a thickness in some vocals, both genders, and a slight bloom-boominess to some instruments/recordings. The Maggies are very revealing in my room, and poor recording definitely sound it.

I'm probably not the type to spend $1000's on tubes, traps, gizmo's etc., but am hoping fellow listeners can share some of their tips/advice for room treatment, that further enhance the sound of their Maggies.

Thanks in advance.

Mark

youngho · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 08:36 pm »

A good website for you to check out would probably be http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/etv.mpl?forum=mug. From what I vaguely recall, many Maggie owners seem to advocate diffusion of the rear wave. Some use nothing more than a ficus tree behind each speaker. For his bipolar Orion design, I recall Linkwitz suggesting broadband diffusion on the front wall (behind the speakers), nothing on the side walls, and either absorption on the rear wall or else having the rear wall as far as possible.

bpape · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 09:09 pm »

Diffusion behind Maggies can work very well in minimizing comb filtering.

I suspect a lot of the thickness you're hearing is due to seating location. 40" from you to the wall behind you in a 23' long room is way too far back int the room. You'd be better off with more like 7-7.5' behind you to get in a better place where you're minimizing sitting in problem areas in the bass.

Bryan

Crimson · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 09:23 pm »

Quote from: youngho on 28 Jan 2009, 08:36 pm

A good website for you to check out would probably be http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/etv.mpl?forum=mug. From what I vaguely recall, many Maggie owners seem to advocate diffusion of the rear wave. Some use nothing more than a ficus tree behind each speaker. For his bipolar Orion design, I recall Linkwitz suggesting broadband diffusion on the front wall (behind the speakers), nothing on the side walls, and either absorption on the rear wall or else having the rear wall as far as possible.

I have 'ficii' about 4' behind and to the outer edges of my 3.6s (with approximately the same speaker orientation: 7' apart, tweeters on the inside with a slight toe-in). I also have a 3x5 ornamental oriental rug situated on the wall directly behind the listening position. So yes, diffusion behind the speakers and absorption behind the listener seems to work well.

max190 · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 12:04 am »

Mark
Open this link http://www.gikacoustics.com/products.html and look at the bottom left picture. I believe the guy that owns that Maggie setup frequents this site. I cannot remember his name though.
Maybe bpape <Bryan> will know.

Ethan Winer · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 02:08 pm »

Quote from: Minn Mark on 28 Jan 2009, 08:23 pm

What is better, a 'live' room, or a really 'dead' room?

Small room ambience is mostly bad sounding ambience, so leaning toward dead sounding will let you hear more of the sound from the speakers. I agree with Bryan that your way too far back in the room. I imagine you hear more room than speakers back there. You don't want totally dead! But you need lots of bass trapping around the room, plus absorption at the side-wall and ceiling reflection points. You also need either absorption or diffusion on the rear well behind you.

As for the front wall behind the speakers, you could use diffusion or absorption. In truth, bass frequencies must be absorbed, so it's only the mids and highs you need to choose absorption or diffusion. Good diffusion costs more than good absorption, so that's a factor.

--Ethan

ted_b · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 02:18 pm »

I have a 23' long room, and I sit 7-7.5' from the back wall (which has Realtrap Diffusors on it). My speakers aren't Maggies, but that's somewhat moot if you are 3.5 feet from back wall. I totally agree that the first thing you must do is try closer listening positions (which may change your speaker placements slightly, especially toe-in).

Brown · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 03:27 pm »

The experts are correct. Maggies love rectangular roomswith reflection at the rear wall and absorbtion directly behind the listening chair. My only suggestion is to try the tweeters on the outside and place the speakers a bit closer. Just move that seat while your listening until that midbass clears up. If you haven't already replace those jumpers with some wire of your choice. Try reinforcing the panel from the rear to the floor. More focus and tighter all around. Have fun and enjoy.

ted_b · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 03:36 pm »

Also, have you looked into myestands? A good buddy on A-gon (teajay) has a review on the stands he posted just recently. He has 20.1's and a VERY hi-end room. The stands took his Maggies to a completely different level, and he is not one for hyperbole.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?raccs&1231740811

ajzepp · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 03:47 pm »

Mark:

I'm returning to Maggies, having picked up a pair of 3.6s just two weeks ago. I had MMGs in this same room a few years back and had excellent results, so I already had a pretty good idea of placement (not that I have much choice, since I have a projector and 133" screen on the front wall). With my last speakers (DeVore Super 8s) I had GIK panels all around the room. So far with the Maggies, all I did was remove a few pieces from the front wall to where I only have a pair of tri-traps in each front corner. I have a few panels on each side wall at the first reflection points and several more panels in the back of the room. I'm definitely going to add some diffusion in here sometime soon, but for right now things are sounding very good. I have Mye stands in transit and hope to take delivery on them early next week, and I'm bi-amping with my Butler 5150 amp and Marchand crossover. If I was going to go back to Maggies, I wanted to do it "right"....and the room treatments are a big part of that. Oh, btw, my room is approx 16x28 with 10' ceilings.

Happy listening!

-AJ

darwin · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Jan 2009, 02:41 pm »

Quote from: bpape on 28 Jan 2009, 09:09 pm

Diffusion behind Maggies can work very well in minimizing comb filtering.

And I can attest to the fact that the GIK D1 diffusors, stuffed with acoustical cotton, work very well in this regard.

darwin · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Jan 2009, 02:53 pm »

Quote from: Ethan Winer on 29 Jan 2009, 02:08 pm

But you need lots of bass trapping around the room, plus absorption at the side-wall and ceiling reflection points. You also need either absorption or diffusion on the rear well behind you.

I've been told that the ceiling reflection points are less of a concern with the big Maggies. Is there any truth to this?
I have 3.6s and your RFZ panels on the walls and ceiling, but I honestly can't tell if I hear a difference or not when I take the ceiling RFZs down. Then again, I could just be deaf as a post.

ajzepp · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Jan 2009, 03:41 pm »

Quote from: darwin on 30 Jan 2009, 02:53 pm

Then again, I could just be deaf as a post.

DustyC · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Jan 2009, 04:10 pm »

Since the large Maggies are line sources you don't need as much (if any) treatment on the floor or ceiling. I have vaulted ceilings in my room and noticed that if I got up on a ladder the reduction of high and mid range signal was very apparent.

bmckenney · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 Jan 2009, 01:21 am »

Quote from: DustyC on 30 Jan 2009, 04:10 pm

Since the large Maggies are line sources you don't need as much (if any) treatment on the floor or ceiling. I have vaulted ceilings in my room and noticed that if I got up on a ladder the reduction of high and mid range signal was very apparent.

Is this true? I have ET LFT 8 planar hybrids and after consulting with RT and GIK they both recommend putting treatment on the ceiling. And the floor come to think of it. Maybe what they are trying to do is work on bass trapping and not reflections. Bryan, any thoughts?

Bryan

Nils · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 Jan 2009, 05:55 am »

Quote from: max190 on 29 Jan 2009, 12:04 am

I believe the guy that owns that Maggie setup frequents this site. I cannot remember his name though.

That would be me.

I've been posting less frequently, as I'm very happy with my room and have moved on to triamping my Magnepan 3.6Rs. In fact, tomorrow I will be receiving a second pair of Quicksilver V4 amps (six monoblock amps makes for a toasty room!).

You can find a fairly recent incarnation of my room at http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1188229613. Since that picture was taken, I've moved the ASC StudioTraps in the corners (where they weren't doing too much) to the second set of first reflection points on my side walls.

I still can't rave enough about the GIK D1 diffusors. They work better the RPG Skyline diffusors, especially when stuffed with acoustic foam or damped with constrained layer damping.

-- Nils

Nils · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 Jan 2009, 06:00 am »

Quote from: DustyC on 30 Jan 2009, 04:10 pm

Since the large Maggies are line sources you don't need as much (if any) treatment on the floor or ceiling. I have vaulted ceilings in my room and noticed that if I got up on a ladder the reduction of high and mid range signal was very apparent.

I can confirm this. The line-source tweeter does not radiate vertically much (if at all). I have three ASC SoundPanels on my ceiling at the FRP and noticed a "slight" benefit, but the side, front, and real walls are a much higher priority.

-- Nils

bmckenney · « **Reply #17 on:** 31 Jan 2009, 10:47 pm »

Quote from: Nils on 31 Jan 2009, 06:00 am

Quote from: DustyC on 30 Jan 2009, 04:10 pm
Since the large Maggies are line sources you don't need as much (if any) treatment on the floor or ceiling. I have vaulted ceilings in my room and noticed that if I got up on a ladder the reduction of high and mid range signal was very apparent.

I can confirm this. The line-source tweeter does not radiate vertically much (if at all). I have three ASC SoundPanels on my ceiling at the FRP and noticed a "slight" benefit, but the side, front, and real walls are a much higher priority.

-- Nils

But what about putting bass traps on the room boundaries like where ceiling meetings wall?

Bryan

Don_S · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Feb 2009, 02:58 am »

Any Maggie owners near Sacramento, CA who would like to show off their system to me?

Nils · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Feb 2009, 06:43 pm »

Quote from: bmckenney on 31 Jan 2009, 10:47 pm

But what about putting bass traps on the room boundaries like where ceiling meetings wall?

Bryan

Hi Bryan,

That's definitely not a bad idea, but I rent an apartment and probably shouldn't install the mounting hardware necessary to hang heavy panels from the ceiling. I also live in earthquake-prone California and it makes me a bit nervous.