Hi-Res Playback - Not Sure Yet?

niels · « **Reply #20 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 10:15 pm »

Have to agree, its not simple. Even 128 kbps can sound fantastic, and some 24/96 like crapcakes, its all in the game, and mastering, I guess.

vegasdave · « **Reply #21 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 11:29 pm »

Mastering is definitely key.

Sasha · « **Reply #22 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 12:49 am »

Quote from: Watson on 19 Jan 2009, 09:30 pm

Quote from: Sasha on 19 Jan 2009, 09:19 pm
Why disappointing?
It is actually good.
I think you would not want gear that would mask everything with its own color, not being able to show the difference between such two quite different sources?

The only difference between bit-perfect digital sources is jitter. And I thought the BDA-1 was supposed to be fairly good at reclocking to eliminate jitter. Sounds like its jitter-filtering is only moderately effective.

Good luck finding any kind of reclocking/upsampling/you name it scheme that will eliminate jitter altogether, such thing does not exist.
BDA-1 is fairly good in this area.
You have to take care of your source as much as DAC, there are no miracle devices that will make poor sources sound good.
Unless of course one gets deceived by device that imparts strong signature of its own and makes all sound the same.

Freo-1 · « **Reply #23 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 01:06 am »

For a given source of music (I'm referring to analog master tapes), if one creates a CD version, and a hi-res version, the hi-res version will always sound closer to the analog master tape source.

Every hi-res disc I own that has a CD version, the hi-res sounds a LOT better. It's not even close.

It is very irritating that Sony, et al, did not market the SACD format better, and re-release their catalog in dual layer CD/SACD format.

Luckily, I'm of an age where the majority of my preferred music is available on SACD (Europe is still producing some quality SACD in Jazz and classical).

The physics involved cant be rationally argued otherwise. aa

James Tanner · « **Reply #24 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 01:15 am »

Quote from: Freo-1 on 20 Jan 2009, 01:06 am

For a given source of music (I'm referring to analog master tapes), if one creates a CD version, and a hi-res version, the hi-res version will always sound closer to the analog master tape source.

Every hi-res disc I own that has a CD version, the hi-res sounds a LOT better. It's not even close.

It is very irritating that Sony, et al, did not market the SACD format better, and re-release their catalog in dual layer CD/SACD format.

Luckily, I'm of an age where the majority of my preferred music is available on SACD (Europe is still producing some quality SACD in Jazz and classical).

The physics involved cant be rationally argued otherwise. aa

Hi Freo,

When you say you own Hi-Res versions-what format are they in?

james

Freo-1 · « **Reply #25 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 01:49 am »

Quote from: James Tanner on 20 Jan 2009, 01:15 am

Quote from: Freo-1 on 20 Jan 2009, 01:06 am
For a given source of music (I'm referring to analog master tapes), if one creates a CD version, and a hi-res version, the hi-res version will always sound closer to the analog master tape source.

Every hi-res disc I own that has a CD version, the hi-res sounds a LOT better. It's not even close.

It is very irritating that Sony, et al, did not market the SACD format better, and re-release their catalog in dual layer CD/SACD format.

Luckily, I'm of an age where the majority of my preferred music is available on SACD (Europe is still producing some quality SACD in Jazz and classical).

The physics involved cant be rationally argued otherwise. aa

Hi Freo,

When you say you own Hi-Res versions-what format are they in?

james

Hi James,

I am referring to SACD or DVD audio.

My reference player is a Denon DVD 5910.

I've tried both analog out (into a tubed based amplification connected to Polk LSI 15/PSW 1000), and fire wire connected to a Sony DA9000ES (with the same speakers).

The DA9000ES takes a SACD bitstream and runs it directly to the output analog stage.

niels · « **Reply #26 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 08:01 pm »

Try Blu-Ray audio, it will blow your mind....

ted_b · « **Reply #27 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 08:08 pm »

Quote from: niels on 20 Jan 2009, 08:01 pm

Try Blu-Ray audio, it will blow your mind....

Blu-ray is the chosen vehicle for the Schnee/Sax 24/192 releases (including the amazing one I heard at CES). But they are going to wait until profile 3.0, audio only. They are either suspecting or have tested that interweaved audio and video on HDMI is a bad thing, and want a Profile 3.0 player that has both separated. In the meantime, 2L's Divertimenti is pretty stunning, and the Pio Elite BD09 ($2300...not a universal...gulp) is a candidate for audiophilia; it's not profile 3.0 but has multiple dacs per analog out x 8.

niels · « **Reply #28 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 08:14 pm »

One can hope that the world forgets about cd´s, sacd and all the abscure formats. (Sorry...., but vinyl rules!) and that Blu-Ray is the real thing.
"Low rez" music is still up for download though...untill internet speed goes ballistic...
The capacity on the disc is what we need.....and its very exiting to follow especially 2L in its pursuit for "perfect sound forever".
I throw in a link some might find useful : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=918734

James Tanner · « **Reply #29 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 08:14 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 20 Jan 2009, 08:08 pm

Quote from: niels on 20 Jan 2009, 08:01 pm
Try Blu-Ray audio, it will blow your mind....

Blu-ray is the chosen vehicle for the Schnee/Sax 24/192 releases (including the amazing one I heard at CES). But they are going to wait until profile 3.0, audio only. They are either suspecting or have tested that interweaved audio and video on HDMI is a bad thing, and want a Profile 3.0 player that has both separated. In the meantime, 2L's Divertimenti is pretty stunning, and the Pio Elite BD09 ($2300...not a universal...gulp) is a candidate for audiophilia; it's not profile 3.0 but has multiple dacs per analog out x 8.

Hi Ted,

Interesting - so do you think hi-res will be a hardware disc medium rather than a downloadable medium?
Also does that leave the market open for a high quality 8 channel analog preamp?

james

niels · « **Reply #30 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 08:36 pm »

I have to admit, a couple of years ago I bought a TDK concert dvd release, "Swinging Bach", live from the marketplace in Leipzig. Here we have Bobby McFerrin, King´s Singers, and Jacques Loussier Trio for instance. The Jacques Loussier performance is really fantastic, and listening to this in DTS made me forget cd´s.....and with DTS-HD we´re really cooking.

ted_b · « **Reply #31 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 08:40 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner on 20 Jan 2009, 08:14 pm

Quote from: ted_b on 20 Jan 2009, 08:08 pm
Quote from: niels on 20 Jan 2009, 08:01 pm
Try Blu-Ray audio, it will blow your mind....

Blu-ray is the chosen vehicle for the Schnee/Sax 24/192 releases (including the amazing one I heard at CES). But they are going to wait until profile 3.0, audio only. They are either suspecting or have tested that interweaved audio and video on HDMI is a bad thing, and want a Profile 3.0 player that has both separated. In the meantime, 2L's Divertimenti is pretty stunning, and the Pio Elite BD09 ($2300...not a universal...gulp) is a candidate for audiophilia; it's not profile 3.0 but has multiple dacs per analog out x 8.

Hi Ted,

Interesting - so do you think hi-res will be a hardware disc medium rather than a downloadable medium?

james

James,
I don't know what to think. But Messers Schnee and Sax, along with Keith Johnson's Hrx site (and David Chesky, indirectly) have figured that existing hardware like DVD and Blu-Ray are viable vehicles for at least distributing this stuff, given the huge file size and average Joe (audiophile) limited DSL and cable modem bandwidth. Personally, I've long been a Blu-Ray for hi-rez audio proponent. Hell, one could even include samples on the big blockbuster video releases, etc.

niels · « **Reply #32 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 08:56 pm »

Was thinking, if the analog outputs on a Blu-Ray are not "trusted", then we need a hdmi input on the Bryston dac. Just for us with only stereo....
Edit: maybe thats not enough. What about lipsync? HDMI output to send the picture to the TV? Or is there a magic box out there?

Toka · « **Reply #33 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 12:13 am »

I've long felt the same as what James said in the first post...sometimes "high-res" (whether it be SACD, or DVD-A, or whatever) can sound amazing compared to a regular redbook edition, and other times, the high-res edition sounds worse. It really just depends. Physics and theory mean little compared to the actual result. The quality of the DAC(s) trumps the format in my experience.

Panelman · « **Reply #34 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 01:28 am »

Guys,

try the sample downloads at this site. The version of Lush Life is very good.

http://www.designwsound.com/dwsblog/

ted_b · « **Reply #35 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 01:35 am »

And Freddie is good, too. I just converted them to FLAC and have them cozy in my Squeeze Center library now. Funny. I found this site this morning, after perusing Kent's blog review about DACs. Small (internet) world.

Panelman · « **Reply #36 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 02:43 am »

Yes, Freddie is very good, although I think the mastering on Lush Life is better however the music is great on both. Ted since you are using Squeeze Center are you not getting 24/96 or are you using the beta release that does 24/96 now? Thanks

ted_b · « **Reply #37 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 03:18 am »

Neither. I use the Modwright Transporter as my Squeeze Center delivery vehicle, and the TP has always been 24/96 capable. (Now, if they'd just figure out how to unleash the 24/192 capability that the internal AKM dac chip is capable of).

niels · « **Reply #38 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 04:02 pm »

Excellent mastering on "Lush Life".

ted_b · « **Reply #39 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 04:08 pm »

Quote from: niels on 23 Jan 2009, 04:02 pm

Excellent mastering on "Lush Life".

Niels,
yes. What resolution is that from (i.e 24/96)?