Squeezebox -or- Squeezebox Duet ?

audio 1 · « **on:** 19 Jan 2009, 04:18 pm »

I am currently considering the purchase of my first wi-fi streaming device. I would like to know which of the two Squeezebox models yields the best sound quality after the Bolder modifications.

Thank you-

Wayne1 · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 06:22 pm »

Thank you for your interest in the BOLDER mods.

There are certain caveats I would have to include in this answer. A lot will depend on how you are planning to use it and what kind of display is important to you.

In most cases I would suggest the DUET over the SB3. The DUET does not have the display, which generates quite a bit of noise.

There are fewer internal switching power supplies in the DUET. Again, less noise.

The DUET uses a Wolfson DAC chip with the analog output IC built into it. It sounds very good (with some mods). The mods do not cause the signal to be inverted or level reduced.

I can add better quality voltage regulators internally to the DUET which will really improve the performance for both digital and analog output.

The SB3 does have a better spec'ed DAC chip, but it does output an inverted signal at low voltage. I CAN get the SB3 to sound better than a DUET, but it will cost a whole lot of money. There isn't much room to work with inside the SB3 so a larger case would have to be used. The SB3 should have a separate power supply for the display and switching supply side of it, for best results. It will also need a Buffer or line level amplifier to invert the signal back to correct phase and raise the voltage level.

After all this is done and many thousand dollars spent, it will sound fantastic.

You can get very close to the same sort of sound for a lot less money with a modded DUET.

rydenfan · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 06:31 pm »

Wayne, Audio 1 is a good friend of mine

I suggested looking into a modded piece from you rather than going with a stock unit and outboard D/A. I think he will be very pleased

audio 1 · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 06:55 pm »

Wayne,

I appreciate the great feedback and answer to my question. It looks like the modded Duet will be the way to go.

Thanks to my good friend Rydenfan I can now move forward into the world of streaming audio and with the help of the Bolder mods I should be very happy with the choice.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 07:21 pm »

I should also add that a Statement level modded SB3 with the Ultimate PS is a wonderful sounding pairing. It just costs quite a lot of money.

A modded DUET with an Ultimate PS or similar will come very close.

sheppard · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 07:55 pm »

Wayne,
How would you answer the question of SB3 vs. Duet if one was only interested in the digital out, ie. using the SB3/Duet as a transport?

Wayne1 · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 08:03 pm »

Even more recommendation for the DUET.

The biggest advantage the SB3 has is the DAC chip. It also has the noise problems because of the display.

Using a good external linear power supply and internal power supply mods, the DUET is a great performer.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 08:58 pm »

As an addendum to the above post, I do feel that with a very good power supply and around the $500.00 level in analog mods, either the SB3 or DUET will sound better than most D to A boxes being offered for less than $1000.00.

This is taking into consideration that the units would be using an equal level of power supply and have digital mods.

If you would compare a stock SB3 or DUET with a stock PS feeding an outboard DAC to an analog modded SB3 or DUET with a linear PS, well, I have not heard any DAC for under $1800.00 that comes close. For that matter I haven't heard ANY DAC period that sounds as good.

I do have a board to build a Sabre DAC. I have read a lot of good things about that unit. I do think it will come down to how good the power supply and analog section that will be used with the DAC section is. In any case, the final price for such an item will be more than the cost of mods to the SB3 or DUET.

bunnyma357 · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 09:24 pm »

So if you wanted the SB3 display and the best bang for the buck sound wise, would it make sense to have both a SB3 and Modified Duet synchronized in the same system?

The SB3 being used only as a display, and all audio going through the Duet. Does the SMPS add noise and garbage over the AC lines that would effect other components?

Jim C

Wayne1 · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 09:47 pm »

Quote from: bunnyma357 on 19 Jan 2009, 09:24 pm

So if you wanted the SB3 display and the best bang for the buck sound wise, would it make sense to have both a SB3 and Modified Duet synchronized in the same system?

The SB3 being used only as a display, and all audio going through the Duet. Does the SMPS add noise and garbage over the AC lines that would effect other components?

Jim C

It would not make sense to me to have both a SB3 and DUET in the same system. At my age (54), I far prefer the display of the DUET controller in my hand to trying to see the SB3 10 feet away. You won't get to see the cool, eye candy of the analog VU meter screensaver, but at least you can see a list of your music rather than one line at a time.

The stock external switching PS does pollute the AC lines. Just like most of them do. That is a very good reason to keep any computer as far away from your stereo as possible.

Bang for the buck would be either a modded DUET or a modded SB3, not both units. Remember, when used wirelessly the SB3 and DUET are both radio transmitters. I would suggest you limit the amount of RFI directly around your system. Having two transmitters directly on top of your system is not a good thing.

For the best sound when you do want an SB3 display, get the SB3 modded and use a linear power supply.

bunnyma357 · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 10:02 pm »

Thanks for the input, for me at 47 I find it the opposite, I greatly prefer a large display across the room that I can read without glasses, rather than having to put my glasses on to read a remote in my hand. If I have my glasses on, I'm probably using my laptop - in which case I'll just use that to control the Squeezebox.

Jim C

Wayne1 · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 10:38 pm »

Well, Jim, I can't see anything with any clarity without my glasses on. Near or far.

It did take me awhile to get used to the DUET controller, but now I can't be without it. I use it to control the DUET and SB3s all over the house.

Rather than try to rig up a DUET to get better sound, I would really suggest you try a linear power supply for the SB3 first.

You can find one for as little as $10.00 here. It does need to have the DC connector changed. I do offer mods for it, as well.

I feel there would be a bigger difference in sound quality using a linear PS with the SB3 then changing to a DUET and using the stock switcher.

rydenfan · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Jan 2009, 11:06 pm »

If you have an iphone or ipod touch there is an incredible app that allows you use it as a controller. It is now in the app store for $10 and I highly recommend it

Then you could use a squeezebox with the display plus this program and have the best of both worlds

mcgsxr · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 12:14 am »

I have an SB3, with both analog and digital mods, and an older Bolder power supply. I use it via the analog outputs, and it is my only source, so it is essentially my source, DAC and preamp. 3 years in now, and very happy - no changes to the system in that long!

The SB3 has 3 different font sizes, so I can set it to large and read it from 15-20 feet away with my glasses on, but you loose horizontal info - it has to scroll.

The controller would absolutely be useful, I have found a way to use my Blackberry Bold as a remote (has wifi) but it still appears as text on that device, not as album art that would be on the Controller.

If it were me, doing it today, I would absolutely go with the Duet - cooler remote, and ultimately likely better sound...

Doublej · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 01:36 am »

Quote from: rydenfan on 19 Jan 2009, 11:06 pm

If you have an iphone or ipod touch there is an incredible app that allows you use it as a controller. It is now in the app store for $10 and I highly recommend it Then you could use a squeezebox with the display plus this program and have the best of both worlds

Even if you don't own an iphone or itouch I think the itouch plus controller app is about the same price as the Duet controller and it should give you equivalent Duet controller functionality plus so much more than the Duet controller (except for replaceable batteries).

Wayne1 · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 01:50 am »

A lot of this discussion is about the user interface. I welcome even more talk about it.

Sonically, both units are very close, after mods. It really does come down to what kind of UI you want.

Personally, I do not like the touch controllers. I have used Dell and Nokia PDAs. I do like the "mechanical" interface of the DUET Controller.

With the latest SqueezeCenter firmware, you can stream flac files direct to the controller and listen through headphones. This is great for doing jobs around the house.

I am not aware of any of the other controllers that let you do this.

Doublej · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 02:25 pm »

I am not a Mac guy and I don't own an itouch so I don't understand exactly what it is capable of but since it's both and ipod and a 'computer' I think you can listen to anything in your itunes library AND you can listen to internet streams.

I believe this would include great sites like Wolfgang's Vault, the Naxos libraries, and an MP3 music locker assuming your house has a wireless network. Can you do this with a Duet Controller? (he says in the spirit of playful one upmanship)

Wayne1 · « **Reply #17 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 03:08 pm »

Quote from: Doublej on 20 Jan 2009, 02:25 pm

I am not a Mac guy and I don't own an itouch so I don't understand exactly what it is capable of but since it's both and ipod and a 'computer' I think you can listen to anything in your itunes library AND you can listen to internet streams.

I believe this would include great sites like Wolfgang's Vault, the Naxos libraries, and an MP3 music locker assuming your house has a wireless network. Can you do this with a Duet Controller? (he says in the spirit of playful one upmanship)

Yes, absolutely! As I write this I am listening to RadioIOJazz through my controller. You can access all of internet radio. If you have an account, you can even listen to SIRIUS internet radio.

The one thing that the iTouch or iPhone will NOT do is play flac files. As that is what my library consists of that's what I want to listen to. I know I can convert them to MP3 for most portable use, but with the controller, I don't have to.

Doublej · « **Reply #18 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 05:43 pm »

Quote from: Wayne1 on 20 Jan 2009, 03:08 pm

Quote from: Doublej on 20 Jan 2009, 02:25 pm
I am not a Mac guy and I don't own an itouch so I don't understand exactly what it is capable of but since it's both and ipod and a 'computer' I think you can listen to anything in your itunes library AND you can listen to internet streams.

I believe this would include great sites like Wolfgang's Vault, the Naxos libraries, and an MP3 music locker assuming your house has a wireless network. Can you do this with a Duet Controller? (he says in the spirit of playful one upmanship)

Yes, absolutely! As I write this I am listening to RadioIOJazz through my controller. You can access all of internet radio. If you have an account, you can even listen to SIRIUS internet radio.

The one thing that the iTouch or iPhone will NOT do is play flac files. As that is what my library consists of that's what I want to listen to. I know I can convert them to MP3 for most portable use, but with the controller, I don't have to.

That's cool. What formats of internet streams does it support and will it work if you just buy the controller or do you need the receiver as well?

Wayne1 · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 05:57 pm »

The Controller is available separately for $270.00 from Logitech

A full DUET system with Receiver and Controller is available from Amazon for $329.00

You do need to run SqueezeCenter 7.3 at least on your computer to get all the features.

SqueezeCenter is compatible with most, if not all of the different compression formats.