[orthobiz]

As some of you may remember, this June we had a basement flood which ruined my basement (and my office space). See
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=57189.0 for that discussion.

I am happy to report that the basement is completely redone and I have a new room, approximately 12 x 17 feet with a 7' 9" ceiling. I am about to embark on room treatments so I thought I'd post here first.

The room has a cement floor with a medium heavy carpet and pad. The walls are double 5/8" drywall with green glue, staggered studs. Outlets are treated with sound absorption behind them and lighting is by sconces.

Already I can tell you I have some serious bass irregularities, booming and nodes, to the point where I want to tame the room before I hook up my REL B2. Because it is my mancave, I will use the term "sofa" instead of "jazzy love seat."

Took out all the office stuff. Even the record rack is outside the room. Nothing but sound equipment!

Pics:
My room is in the far left.


Looking at my door:


On entering:


Standing behind the couch:


Looking at the left corner:


The right rear corner has pipes behind that bump in the wall (for our new sump system)


The left front corner has an airconditioning return that would interfere with floor-to-ceiling traps:


Except for the camera's tunnel vision, this is what I see sitting on the sofa:


And this is the view from the left speaker. My Loricraft sits on an ASC subwoofer stand and I have an ASC tube trap in the corner, both of which I bought on sale last year.


Finally, I have an exterior door with a sash. There's about 6 inches from the wall to the hinge, so a 4" or 5.5" thick bass trap just might fit floor to ceiling. Serious listening is done with the door closed.


Isolation of me from the rest of the household is great. But the room is pretty live, horribly so before the carpet went in. The pictures seem to make the room look smaller than it is. I am happy but know it will sound better with room treatments.

Ideas? Thanks!

Paul

[Biscuit]

Congratulations on the new room.  Seeing those speakers makes feel a bit bad...not for you but for me.  I had a set a long time ago, they were my first audiophile speakers and I still remember picking them up (bought second hand).  Unfortunately, the seller ripped me off.  The woofers were rotted, the tweeters blown (the domes at least) and the midrange drivers had been replaced.  I bought them without testing them because the guy was moving out of state and didn't have his system set up (at least that's what he said!).  I took them to a place that used to do warrantee work and they happened to have a complete set of NOS drivers (they ordered them for a customer who never picked them up) and a guy who was very familiar with the xover design of the DQ10's.  I told them my story and they felt sorry for me and did the job for cost. 

I had the speakers for about 6 years and "upgraded" to a more trendy design.  Gave the DQ10's to my brother and he moved 2000 miles away and his cats ruined them within a year.  He wound up selling them at a garage sale for $25 (grrrrrr).    Best of luck with your setup.  I bet AVA and DQ10's sound great in your new room!

[orthobiz]

Thanks, Biscuit. I've had those DQ-10's since 1977, I'm the original owner.

Paul

[youngho]

That's a pretty spartan room. Consider taking some measurements at the listening position?

Consider resistive bass trapping (fiberglass or mineral wool or whatever) in as many corners (any intersection of two or three room boundaries, not just wall-wall or wall-wall-ceiling) as possible; some reflective element for non-bass frequencies might be desirable to keep the room from sounding too dead. There is even the RPG BAD panel, which has a little diffusion and is available in 4" thickness. For less visually obstrusive bass trapping, RealTraps used to offer a bass soffit product. I believe that ASC still does. If appropriate, consider membrane or diaphragmatic absorbers like the RPG Modex Plate to target certain frequency ranges.

Because there is so little in the room, consider add thick (3"+ for nearly broadband) absorption at first reflection points, especially on the the back wall behind the listening position and also the ceiling, also on the front wall between the speakers. If you're deciding between more smaller pieces or fewer bigger ones, opt for the former. Consider spending some money on deep (6"+) diffusion panels for the sides of the back of the room, especially if the room is getting too dead.

Assuming that the carpet is perforated with a thick felt underlay, you could consider hanging some artwork and angling it downward. Some shelving for books, CDs, or LPs might help reduce flutter echoes between facing sections of untreated walls.

[Ethan Winer]

Ideas? Thanks!

All the standard advice applies: Bass traps in as many corners as you can manage, and absorption at the side-wall and ceiling reflection points. That alone will get you 90 percent of the way there. Or even 100 percent.

--Ethan

[bpape]

The room is looking good.  Congrats

I'd shoot for broadband bass control in the front corners first. 

Next, deal with the reflection points on the side walls - thicker is better in this application as youngho said.

Live with that for a while and see what you think.  Additional items could include:

Diffusion at the ceiling reflection points and in the rear half of the room on the side walls.

Potentially thick panels centered on the rear wall if you're still having issues with length related cancellations.

Bryan

[JLM]

Looking good!  (It seems better than before.)

I know you were limited on the room dimensions, so I'm not suprised that the bass would be an issue (as the shape of the room is in a 1 to 1.5 to 2 ratio).  Note that the low ceilings won't allow for stacking two 4 foot tall panels, so don't worry about the ventilation grill or plumbing soffit.

I've got six GIK 244 panels.  Next time I'm in the area, I'll try to remember to bring a couple with me so you can try them out.  (Or you can come visit my audio man cave, hint hint).

[orthobiz]

Thanks everybody. Yeah, Spartan is right! My wife is amazed as she wanted to hang pictures, etc. But basically I wanted to get the room finished and deal with room treatments after the fact.

My previous room had CD racks and record racks, a desk, a big computer, etc. I think less is better at this point and like having a refuge to just sit and listen. If I tried to shoehorn a desk in there I just know I'd be stuck behind a computer!

Interesting about the thicker reflection treatments, more like bass traps at 4" thick than light absorption at 2", right?

Thanks again,

Paul

[Biscuit]

Where did you get those lights?  Very cool looking.

[bpape]

They'll still work well for reflection duties - just adding a little extra thickness to extend the overall bass control in the room.

Bryan

[max190]

Absorption all around will make those 10's sing and seem like your room is much larger than it is.
Man those bring back the memories.
The 1st time I heard them back in the 70's I had to have them.  They could image with the best of them.

To sound their best, they need space and lots of power.  They will sound even better if you remove the rear screen, and re-wire all the drivers with some heavy gage wire.

Good luck,

[orthobiz]

Where did you get those lights?  Very cool looking.

Thanks. Shade of Light
http://www.shadesoflight.com/rustic-contemporary-wall-sconce.html
I thought the price was decent but what sold me was the two open 60 watt bulbs per sconce, lots of light reflected off the ceiling!
So far I don't hear resonances but I'm sure they must vibrate...

Paul

[Biscuit]

I didn't think about reflection.  I may get the same lights for my office.  Just need to check with the wife because she may have something to say...it is my office.  So far, they are my favorites sconces.

[youngho]

Interesting about the thicker reflection treatments, more like bass traps at 4" thick than light absorption at 2", right?

Well, i think it depends on what you're trying to do. Let's take this absorption data at face value, for example: http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

I assume that you're looking for on-wall placement without an air space behind it for first-reflection point absorption. If you were considering OC701, you see a big jump in the absorption data at 250 Hz going from 2" to 3". Is 250 Hz real bass? Probably not for most people.

Although this data does not reflect it, I have seen recommendations to consider thicker but lower-density absorption when consider a single-density absorption panel, or if constructing a multiple density panel, to have the sound go from lower- to higher-density layers when traveling through the panel towards the wall. There are other tables for Owens Corning fiberglass that vary somewhat. Covering with fabric may change absorption at higher frequencies, although this can be frequency-dependent, even within certain frequency ranges, as well as dependent on the angle of incidence.

In any case, this is why it's helpful to consider some measurements so that you can identify the most problematic areas and allocate your time, energy, and money appropriately.

[orthobiz]

Update: Getting really close to a buy from GIK.

The wall behind the speakers: two corners: 4 + 3 foot Tri Traps, stacked to 7 feet, black, nearly floor to ceiling.
In the rear right corner, I'll keep the ASC giganto round thing.
In the rear left corner, behind the door, I'll put two 244's side by side. They're 5.5 inches and the door has just over 6" of clearance to the hinge.
Then, I'll sprinkle three 242's to absorb first reflections, maybe one on each side and one between the speakers on the back wall or on the ceiling.

It'll be a good start!

Meanwhile, I played track 4 on the Sneakers soundtrack, as recommended by REL. WITHOUT the subwoofer hooked up, I've still got lots of standing bass waves as I move around the room. Once I tackle some of these, I'll consider hooking the sub up!

And further meanwhile, Frank is building me a DOUBLE ULTRA!!!!!

I'm just a lucky, lucky boy...

Paul

[orthobiz]

180 lbs of GIK stuff in four giant boxes is wending its way north as I write this.
I'll post a new thread with pics when it arrives.

Heck, I may even hook up my REL subwoofer!

Paul