[Freo-1]

These threads about the types of DAC's regarding  16 bit CD resolution are making my head spin.


The DAC topology pails in sound difference compared to SACD/DVD sound sources.  After living and using Pioneer Elite DVI 59, Denon DVD 5910 players, and comparing them to various 16 bit resolutions, there simply is no comparisons.

The sound from these formats is significantly better than any CD playback of the same performance. I've tried the analog out to a2 channel based tube playback, as well as IEE 1394 fed directly to a Class D playback (where the firewire is sent directly to the output stage).  The difference is nothing short of remarkable.

I find it very frustrating that these superior audio formats are dying on the vine.  Fortunately, Europe is still making SACD of music I like. People who want new music in the higher res format are out of luck (unless you obtain a DVD of a performance)

Perhaps, with the advent of Blu-Ray, at least some music will be transferred at the higher resolution.

I expect some arguments otherwise, but it is hard to believe that an analog waveform source that is converted to digital at a significantly higher word length and higher sampling frequency (thus closer approximating the original analog waveform) would NOT sound closer to the original than a 16 bit 44.1 KHz version. aa

[Crimson]

I agree with your observations, but the unfortunate fact is that so far very little hi-rez is available. In this regard, discussions of non-over/upsampling vs upsampling dacs might be relevant.

[Freo-1]

I agree with your observations, but the unfortunate fact is that so far very little hi-rez is available. In this regard, discussions of non-over/upsampling vs upsampling dacs might be relevant.

It's simply inexcusable. The recording companies could EASILY issue dual layer SACD/CD discs that would help the format out. Sony is just being stupid, IMHO. 

[Jon L]

The *REAL* crime IMO is the extreme poor recording quality of most redbook CD's issued. 

The much-maligned 16/44.1 format can offer very, very nice sound quality if done correctly, but the fact is, not too many people involved in recording/mastering/marketing give a rat's ass.  Sure, hi-res format done with care is even better, but that ship has pretty much sailed, at least for the albums I actually want to listen to on a regular basis 

[NewBuyer]

...The much-maligned 16/44.1 format can offer very, very nice sound quality if done correctly, but the fact is, not too many people involved in recording/mastering/marketing give a rat's ass...

I have been wondering why this is the case.  It seems like the above mentioned people should still be very interested in better sound quality recording - is it a lack of consumer demand thing (i.e. the ipon generation) that is causing the recording industry to become so incompetent? 

[low.pfile]

I agree with your observations, but the unfortunate fact is that so far very little hi-rez is available. In this regard, discussions of non-over/upsampling vs upsampling dacs might be relevant.

It's simply inexcusable. The recording companies could EASILY issue dual layer SACD/CD discs that would help the format out. Sony is just being stupid, IMHO. 

Unfortunately, it is excusable to the business heads of the record companies. Hi rez is a poor money maker. When the populous is content with mp3s how can they justify the added cost hi-rez conversion and or mastering?

I would bet that less than 2% of my music library is on available on anything other than 16bit/44.1, so I don't even think about hi-rez.

[Freo-1]

...The much-maligned 16/44.1 format can offer very, very nice sound quality if done correctly, but the fact is, not too many people involved in recording/mastering/marketing give a rat's ass...

I have been wondering why this is the case.  It seems like the above mentioned people should still be very interested in better sound quality recording - is it a lack of consumer demand thing (i.e. the ipon generation) that is causing the recording industry to become so incompetent? 

There are recordings from the 50's and 60's transferred to CD/SACD that blow away almost all current (popular) recordings.  The old engineers took pride in their work (especially DECCA, where even old rock recordings (EG:Savoy Brown) were well recorded.

[richidoo]

Redbook is plenty good enough. That's why hirez formats have failed. And like low.pfile said, that's where the content is. Download will replace CD when 100mbit fiber comes into the house. Then maybe hirez will have a chance. The recording quality is most of the problem. Creating a recording with minimal distortion worthy of a serious hifi rig is difficult, requires a lot of knowledge, experience and extremely expensive recording equipment, and friends just as talented to master it to CD, and market it as a quality recording. There just isn't that kind of commitment to audiophile recordings, but it's better now than it has ever been before. Try a Chesky sampler CD sometime to see what redbook can do. And don't forget to use NOS DAC... ;     

[Freo-1]

I used to think red book was good enough, then I got that !@#$% Denon 5910, and some SACD Jazz recordings (not to mention Bocelli), and realized that red book was NOT good enough! 

I went and researched "Principals of Digital Audio" updates, and wound up saying "D'oh!" (No bloody wonder!)

Granted, one needs a playback system to fully appreciate,  but hey, that's what this hobby is about, nes pa?

The reality is, people do not know they can achieve this performance.  I can assure you that my non audio geek friends are "astounded" when they hear this setup (my audio geek friends like it also).

Hopefully, Blu-Ray (with losless 24 bit resolution) will help.  aa

[satfrat]

Forget it.

[konut]

Its neither the format nor the DAC, its the production of the content, and the poor implementation thereof. 16/44.1 can sound pretty darn good if implemented well. High rez formats have the POTENTIAL to sound better. Unfortunately no format lives up to its potential very often. That goes all the way back to the Edison cylinder. And so it will probably always be.