Recomended cartridge for turntable?

EV-MAN · « **on:** 11 Jan 2009, 03:25 am »

I have a Insight 240 & Insight Preamp. I have a chance to get a old Garard AT-60 turntable very cheap to get me by till I have the money to get a good one. What cartridge should I use. Also howabout some suggestions on a turntable. Thanks Bill

Panelman · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Jan 2009, 03:36 am »

Bill,

don't know your budget, but for a low cost option the Technics SL1200 is a very strong choice. Listening to mine now with a Dynavector 10X5 and the sound is very good for less than $900 for the two.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Jan 2009, 03:53 am »

The Audio Technica 440MLa that Wayner recommended is excellent for an inexpensive cartridge. I bought mine from LP Gear for $99.00, but they have since increased in price to $119.00. However, I suspect that is still about the lowest price. However, I don't know if the Garard has any characteristics that would exclude the 440MLa as a suitable cartridge.

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=ATC05&Category_Code=A3

Regarding turntables, the aforementioned Technics is a workhorse. If you want an inexpensive belt drive turntable, vintage AR turntables are frequently available on a'gon and ebay in the 200.00-400.00 range. I have a twenty-four year old AR EB-101 that plays very well. I replaced the motor and belt last year, which cost about 80.00, but otherwise, the turntable is stock (and minty!). Even an inexpensive table, such as my AR with the 440MLa cartridge, produces a superior source to many CDP/DAC combinations, IMO.

Zheeeem · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Jan 2009, 01:16 pm »

I have had good luck with grado cartridges, and you're bound to find something in your price range.

jrtrent · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Jan 2009, 03:50 pm »

Quote from: EV-MAN on 11 Jan 2009, 03:25 am

I have a Insight 240 & Insight Preamp. I have a chance to get a old Garard AT-60 turntable very cheap to get me by till I have the money to get a good one. What cartridge should I use. Also howabout some suggestions on a turntable. Thanks Bill

Without knowing more about the turntable's arm bearing quality and available setup parameters (e.g., overhang, offset angle, azimuth, VTA), I'd be wary of mounting a cartridge using a fine-line stylus, such as the AT440MLa, which requires exactitude in such things. The AT60 was reviewed in High Fidelity in November of 1965; if my library has that issue, it would be interesting to see that review. My best guess would be to choose something like the Shure M44-7. This was considered a hi-fi cartridge when the AT60 was made, its conical stylus is more tolerant of less-than-ideal setup, its 1 1/2 to 3 gram tracking force range will place lower demands on tonearm bearing quality/friction, and, though Shure no longer markets a 78 stylus for the M44 series, other reputable suppliers, such as Ed Saunders and Esoteric Sound, have them available should you find you enjoy collecting 78's. A lower-cost option that's given me a lot of pleasure, and is my favorite cartridge for 78's, is the Stanton 500.V3.

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Jan 2009, 02:32 am »

Actually the Shure M97xE is a fine choice for any table. It's super sound and affordable price make it a perfect choice for any vinyl lover.

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Jan 2009, 11:08 pm »

Just found this on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230318367373&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013 a Shure M97xE NIB. I have no affiliation with the seller or eBay, just like passing on a deal when I find one. Enjoy!

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Jan 2009, 11:22 pm »

Wayner · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Jan 2009, 11:31 pm »

The Shure M97xe is the most boring un-fidelity, dry, lifeless cartridge I have ever owned. (no offense, just an opinion). Perhaps it was the several tables I tried it on. It played music, but it was boring, boring and even more boring. The guy I sold it to, soon had the same opinion (I think). I Think there are lots of better choices for the same (or near same) money. Such as OINP's suggestion of the AT440MLa, or a 2M series from Ortofon.

Wayner

gjs_cds · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Jan 2009, 01:37 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 13 Jan 2009, 11:31 pm

The Shure M97xe is the most boring un-fidelity, dry, lifeless cartridge I have ever owned. (no offense, just an opinion). Perhaps it was the several tables I tried it on. It played music, but it was boring, boring and even more boring. The guy I sold it to, soon had the same opinion (I think). I Think there are lots of better choices for the same (or near same) money. Such as OINP's suggestion of the AT440MLa, or a 2M series from Ortofon.

Hey Wayner, Can you please just stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel?

Thanks,

doug s. · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Jan 2009, 02:03 pm »

even if you like the sound of the m97xe, why would anyone ever mount one on their turntable? elliptical stylus? i am amazed about all the folks that rave about the denon 103 cartridges - these are even worse, w/spherical styli. w/modern fine-line type styli awailable at reasonable prices, that dig deeper into record grooves w/more surface area contact, which translates to better sound, better tracking, less wear, why get something else?

ymmv,

doug s.

jrtrent · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Jan 2009, 02:39 pm »

Quote from: Listens2tubes on 13 Jan 2009, 02:32 am

Actually the Shure M97xE is a fine choice for any table. It's super sound and affordable price make it a perfect choice for any vinyl lover.

Quote from: Wayner on 13 Jan 2009, 11:31 pm

The Shure M97xe is the most boring un-fidelity, dry, lifeless cartridge I have ever owned. (no offense, just an opinion). Perhaps it was the several tables I tried it on. It played music, but it was boring, boring and even more boring. The guy I sold it to, soon had the same opinion (I think). I Think there are lots of better choices for the same (or near same) money. Such as OINP's suggestion of the AT440MLa, or a 2M series from Ortofon.

Shure says that they reconfigured their cartridges with the "x" designation for a "warmer" sound. When you look at reviews for the 2M series, it would appear there is nothing warm, romantic, or easygoing about it, with a rising high end as opposed to the M97xE's drooping high end, which "results in a distinctive presentation that gives swathes of detail and seemingly impressive insight, but also a sound diametrically opposite to that of yore; instead of warm and cuddly, you get a brightly lit midband that isn’t kind to old, worn discs in particular, nor to older recordings . . ."* I happen to love the M97xE in my system, performing just as reviewers have described: relaxed, round, smooth, undistorted and unstressed; a friendly, laid-back cartridge that handles sibilance well and has a recessed rather than forward soundstage presentation. My older brother hates it and prefers Ortofon (but then, my tastes run to softly-playing chamber music and cantatas on Vandersteen speakers while my brother likes rock and blues loudly played on his Klipsch speakers).

However, I still don't know the AT-60's capabilities with light-tracking cartridges. I know KAB recommends a Stanton 500 body with a conical DJ stylus rated to track at 2-5 grams for "older changers." Since such a cartridge can also do double-duty as a 78 rpm cartridge, I think it, or the M44-7 suggested previously, might be a safer first choice until the quality and condition of the player is established.

* www.ortofon2m.com/indhold/HFW_Test_Nov07.pdf

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Jan 2009, 11:25 pm »

I've heard it sound great. Maybe it was the RS Labs RS-1 arm and the VPI Scout that made the difference? The RS-1 has RCA jacks, so the interconnect can be a factor. Best was the Cardas tonearm wire with ETI Copper Bullets. Setup and break-in can also make a difference.

Toka · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Jan 2009, 11:29 pm »

Quote from: doug s. on 14 Jan 2009, 02:03 pm

even if you like the sound of the m97xe, why would anyone ever mount one on their turntable? elliptical stylus? i am amazed about all the folks that rave about the denon 103 cartridges - these are even worse, w/spherical styli. w/modern fine-line type styli awailable at reasonable prices, that dig deeper into record grooves w/more surface area contact, which translates to better sound, better tracking, less wear, why get something else?

Well, some older records (cut with a tracing simulator) just sound "right" when used with a conical stylus (as intended). As far as damage, you are more likely to damage something with a mis-aligned fine-line than you would with a mis-aligned, milder profile.

In all, though, just use what you like!

Wayner · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Jan 2009, 11:44 pm »

One time I thought the Shure sounded good, but that went away after awhile. I can't understand how Stereopile gave it a recommended component.

W

rlee8394 · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Jan 2009, 03:22 am »

Quote

I can't understand how Stereopile gave it a recommended component.

Umm..., advertising $$$?? Just a guess on my part.

Ron

weirdo · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Jan 2009, 03:49 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 13 Jan 2009, 11:31 pm

The Shure M97xe is the most boring un-fidelity, dry, lifeless cartridge I have ever owned. (no offense, just an opinion). Perhaps it was the several tables I tried it on. It played music, but it was boring, boring and even more boring. The guy I sold it to, soon had the same opinion (I think). I Think there are lots of better choices for the same (or near same) money. Such as OINP's suggestion of the AT440MLa, or a 2M series from Ortofon.[/i]

Wayner

I couldn't agree more. I got one for my Technics and it is flat and uninvolving. I've heard cheap carts that sound better. For a first time Table guy, particularly if you are resurrecting an old table and getting back into vinyl after a long absence, I would do the following, Just my opinion.
1) get a good cheap all around cart for no more than 50 bucks. AT makes a bunch in that price range, some of which have been critically reviewed. 2) Spend up to 150.00 on a decent entry level phono preamp. If you go cheap on the pre, you will always be wondering if you could have done better. Get an alligmnment tool and scale. Your total expenditure is now around 230.00. You can't really spend too much less if you want to properly assess what you've got.
When you are up and running, you will have to to evaluate for yourself if the next step up in sound is worth the trouble of re-investing in vinyl. If you do, you will have the preamp and tools already. If not, sell the rig as a complete set-up. Thats how I would jump back in. You really need to get used to the routine of caring for and playing Vinyl. Many may decide they don't want to give up the convenience of CD's.