Black Gates in my Preamp. How long for burn in ??

topround · « **on:** 10 Jan 2009, 01:19 am »

Ok, I just replaced the filter caps in my preamp with Black Gates and now it sounds weird.
Great textured bass, tremendous detail but everything sounds like it was pushed in the center towards the back, like a V between my speakers, very recessed at the center, becoming less so as you move to the sides.
I am taking the preamp out of the system to burn in for a 100 hours and see what happens.

Anybody experience weird thing with their blackgates??

Mike

NagysAudio · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Jan 2009, 01:33 am »

Did you replace with the same type and capacity? Did you make sure the polarity is correct? What was the make of the original capacitors? Were they electrolytic? As for burn in time, there's no such thing. Your preamplifier should reach its full sonic capacity when it warms up to a constant temperature.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Jan 2009, 01:40 am »

300 hours more like it, Mike

Hang in there...it's often ugly until it's fully there with Blackgate-d components.

John

topround · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Jan 2009, 01:55 am »

Actually Dr Lloyd of Mapletree Audio did the work, and yes same size caps.
OK I have some time I see.

Thanks

Mike

Bigfish · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Jan 2009, 02:26 am »

Quote from: topround on 10 Jan 2009, 01:55 am

Actually Dr Lloyd of Mapletree Audio did the work, and yes same size caps.
OK I have some time I see.

Thanks

Mike

Mike:

I got the Black Gate in the Preamp and a Jensen in the power supply. I of course did not have your starting reference point but I put a couple hundred hours on mine before I really seriously listened to it. I am sure your unit with the new Caps will settle-in great!

Ken

topround · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Jan 2009, 02:51 am »

Thanks.
I just spoke to my friend the "tube repair guy" he said it will take some time to form the caps to form, give it lots of time, then listen.
OK, will report back in 2 weeks on the progress.
I expereinced cap burn in with my second preamp, at first it was closed in, after about 200 hours it really opened up alot. This just threw me off, not your normal break-in sound, it just was good but bad weird kinda!

Mike
Nagys Audio,
You are on a website that is dominated by people who believe in burn in, to say otherwise is considered almost heresy here. It would not do well for your business to take that position.
Just some free advice.

NagysAudio · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 Jan 2009, 03:26 am »

Thanks for the free advice Mike. Capacitor burn in is negligible, you're just simply getting used to the new sound. However, if changing out the power supply capacitors had that significant of a difference, then either your preamp is broken, the capacitors are defective, the circuit has been altered, or all of the above.

topround · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 Jan 2009, 03:26 am »

OK aa

*Scotty* · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 Jan 2009, 04:12 am »

topround,If all you have replaced is the filter caps, then I would plug it in and turn it on and walk away for about three weeks. You don't have to get used to how it sounds for it to sound better after about three weeks of burn in.
Scotty

Folsom · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Jan 2009, 06:40 am »

180-240ish for the initial burn in so they sound listenable. However they get really damn smooth around 400-600hrs...

Yeah it sucks, been through it more than once.

topround · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Jan 2009, 01:33 pm »

Thanks guys,
I am just going to leave it on in my basement for couple of weeks , turn it on and off a few times, and see what happens, if it sounds different than I did not get used to it, it just changed, hopefully for the better.

Mike

laserman · « **Reply #11 on:** 11 Jan 2009, 05:36 pm »

Hi Mike,

I guess you didn't believe me when I told you it would take in excess of 400 hours depending on how many you had replaced.

It took my moded Forte f44 at least that long.

L

Folsom · « **Reply #12 on:** 11 Jan 2009, 05:51 pm »

In my amp, whether it is them or not, it sounds better after playing for awhile too.

There is no question about series changes at 400+hrs and the initial 200hrs area.

Airborn · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Jan 2009, 06:53 pm »

Mike,

I have the Ultra 4A SE with Black Gate signal capacitors installed. Dr. Peppard told me this was an upgrade over the stock Nichicon capacitors, so I went with it. To tell you the truth, I didn't notice as much "break in" change as I expected after 200 hours, etc. and as others are reporting here. My Ultra sounded pretty good out of the box and it certainly improved with time, but the changes were not the dramatic ones I expected after reading about the long break in with Black Gates. Of course, I haven't heard the unit with the standard caps, so maybe the changes are really noticeable in that circumstance? I think if you are hoping for major changes in the sound after 400 hours you may not hear it...at least I didn't. If the sound isn't what you want, I know you know tube rolling can have a dramatic positive effect. Maybe the tubes that sounded good with the standard caps aren't as good with the Black Gates? Anyway, I offer this fwiw, imho, ymmv, in my system, to my ears, etc., etc....I hope you don't ditch the Mapletree because of it, as that would be a shame.

Steve

Folsom · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Jan 2009, 08:21 pm »

Well everyone does have different ears. Mine are pretty darn good, the local Hi-Fi shop use to like to have me pick stuff out. I guess it is more that in the case of BlackGates is that I am sensitive to fatigue and really notice when something sounds smoother, less harsh. However BlackGates in different places in a circuit are known to have more or less of an effect depending on where they are.

Oh yeah did you replace with Type N/NX? What version did you use? The Type N/NX sound best in "reverse polarity" even though they are non-polar. At least when they are directly feeding anything or in series.

topround · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Jan 2009, 11:19 pm »

Been pretty busy fixing broken things. Things like the laundry pump in my house, the fuel pump on my van and a fuel line on my Freightliner, oh and taking my boy Scotty (6) to get a cavity filled. Candy is his obsession, so I really have not been listening so much, but I have the preamp on, and will report what I think, its been on about 80 hours so far so it still has a way to go.
I will be honest, I love my Mapletree and am not afraid to admit making a mistake, I do not latch on to a certain brand with blind loyalty. It has to do what i need it to do or I move on. And when something works I keep it until I want to move to something else or find something better.
If the Blackgates don't work out I will remove them and put the Nichicons back in, pretty simple.
It interests me to hear what these changes can do, it was not too expensive, and the experience can be first hand and held valuable for me.

Thanks for your advise. I appreciate hearing it. I have heard stories about the long break in period. My tube repair guy said that even though the blackgates are great caps, they may turn out not to be so good in the circuit I am using. We will see. I would love it if after 400 hours everything becomes liquid and Delicious. But if it doesn't I'll be honest about it.

andyr · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Jan 2009, 01:48 am »

Quote from: NagysAudio on 10 Jan 2009, 03:26 am

Thanks for the free advice Mike. Capacitor burn in is negligible, you're just simply getting used to the new sound. However, if changing out the power supply capacitors had that significant of a difference, then either your preamp is broken, the capacitors are defective, the circuit has been altered, or all of the above.

Methinks you are deluded.

How can you be "getting used to the new sound" if the sound of the amp cycles through 'wonderful' to 'harsh' to 'lousy' and then back again to 'wonderful' ... and so on? (IE. the sound changes.)

IME, BGs typically take at least 200hrs to achieve their final (excellent!

) sound.

And topround,

You said "If the Blackgates don't work out I will remove them and put the Nichicons back in" ... IME, if we're talking about big PS electrolytics, BGs sound better than Nichicon Gold Tunes (with a gold case) which sound better than standard Nichicons (with a black case). But the BGs are so expensive I only use Nichicon GTs for 2,200uF & 4,700uF PS caps.

Regards,

Andy

Folsom · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Jan 2009, 03:23 am »

Topround did you put in a Type N/NX? (non-polar?)

If you did it is important that the "polarity" as it would be if it was polarized be reversed. If you do not do this you will never understand why they are so acclaimed. I was unaware of this, but after the switch it was like DAMN.

andyr · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Jan 2009, 03:43 am »

Quote from: Destroyer of Smiles. on 13 Jan 2009, 03:23 am

Topround did you put in a Type N/NX? (non-polar?)

If you did it is important that the "polarity" as it would be if it was polarized be reversed. If you do not do this you will never understand why they are so acclaimed. I was unaware of this, but after the switch it was like DAMN.

That's interesting that you heard the difference, DoS, as one "upgrade" for when you use Type 'N/NX' BGs is to use what their technical specs call the "Super-E" configuration ... you use a pair of them to make up the required value and reverse the polarity of one (ie. the 2 holes in the PCB each have 1x'+' lead and 1x'-' lead). This configuration gives better sound than simply using 1 x twice-as-big 'N/NX'.

Regards,

Andy

Folsom · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Jan 2009, 05:37 am »

Depends on what part of the circuit you are using it for though... That is how they do power banks (they actually sell a pre-fabbed one!).

I used mine in my amplifier for a long time, months, and when I switched I was blown away.