Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think

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soundbitten1

Re: Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think
« Reply #20 on: 11 Feb 2009, 02:56 am »


  Wouldn't you want to be informed of both positive and negative experiences?  I wish someone would have said these things to me, perhaps I would have never wasted money the second time around.  Perhaps I would have not fallen for Klaus's affirmations that he would fix everything. 
 



Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are the first person to have a negative experience with Odyssey ? 

You're one in a million .


hoosier21

Re: Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think
« Reply #21 on: 11 Feb 2009, 03:24 am »
Very, very disappointing and interesting.

I'll have a lot to add here,  obviously,  and will do so tonight,  when I have some time here.

Late,

Klaus

This will be interesting.

Will

Re: Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think
« Reply #22 on: 11 Feb 2009, 03:28 am »
I have to add my 2 cents here and I don't post often.

Sure, it's hard to reach Klaus at 8 or 9 AM, but if I call at 10 PM or Midnight or later he'll answer the phone (or he calls me back, because he was already on the phone).  If I've left a message earlier in the day, I'll get a call back that night.  I don't think Klaus sleeps more than a few hours a day.

Maybe that's why he signs off with "Late."  It works for me.

I had a few small issues, mostly to do with the dirty AC power in my house.  Klaus just about stood on his head to make sure I was happy.  He's never tried to sell me more than I needed or could afford and he steered me in the direction to get the most bang for my buck.  My gear and upgrades came back in short order.

Am I lucky?  I think so, because I have an incredibly musical system built with love.

Thank you, Klaus.


pfradale

Re: Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think
« Reply #23 on: 11 Feb 2009, 06:29 am »
Before I had Odyssey gear I had some SET stuff I built myself and I had some Carver gear (older stuff, made in Japan). The Carver stuff ran for years but then started acting up. I sent them off to WA to get fixed; it took a long time to get it back and when I did the same problem happened within two weeks (lost a channel).

I got the Odyssey gear after reading a ton of positive reviews. I've listened to many systems since and still think the Odysseys compare very well to anything in their price range and even to brands that cost much more. My Unity horns/TD mid-basses are very sensitive, somewhere above 103dB/W/m. They are quite quiet with the Mono extremes/Tempest.

I had trouble with the Tempest when I moved to Japan--had a hum I could not eliminate. Called Klaus (time difference between Japan and Indy worked to my advantage I thought) but got his message service. Left a message and I'll be damned if he didn't call me back international long distance on his own dime and spoke to me about it for a while. Rather than make me send the Tempest to him to repair which would have cost a ton in shipping he sent a set of parts to me including the mu-metal transformer upgrade... for free. Got the parts in about a week and had a local shop install them.

I've ZERO complaints about my experience with Klaus.  I am not about to deny whatever experience ArtilleryofSound is claiming as I was not involved and hate "he said/she said" kind of things anyway, but I wanted to add my experience both as an example of what I have experienced and to add to the long list of people I suspect will reply with similar experiences.

My biggest beef with Klaus is that he came up with the Kismet line and I am sorely tempted to save up to upgrade to them. Bastard.  :duh: :lol:

laserboi

Re: Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think
« Reply #24 on: 11 Feb 2009, 06:43 am »
Hey Folks,

I've bought a Stratos Extreme SE and a Candela Preamp from Klaus and Co. and both of my experiences were flawless.  I'm very pleased with the dynamic and powerful sound that this combination has with my Mirages.  Klaus, as mentioned earlier in this thread has never tried to sell me anything goofy and in fact took very good care of me when my candela took longer to deliver that originally estimated. 

I work in retail and can tell you one thing that is a constant from my experience.  No matter how focused and committed a company is to customer service, there will always be the occasional let down.  The world is far from a perfect place and with that there isn't a company that has a perfect record when it comes to customer service.  When something happens, usually an honest mistake, you try to rectify the situation to the best of your ability and it always isn't enough.  That is to be expected, and the overall satisfaction of a company's customer base is what I look for.  When 95% of a companies' customers are extremely satisfied then I have confidence in that company. 

I was watching Forest Gump today while enjoying my lunch and the scene where Tom Hanks (Forest Gump) gives the bumper sticker guy the idea of a lifetime reminds me of Artillery's reply.  The bumper sticker motto was "Shit Happens." 

Furthermore, every time I've called Klaus I've always been received quite graciously over the phone whether it has been Klaus or Mike who I have talked with.  One more thing before I hit the reply button that just popped into my mind.  When my company takes back a defective product we send it back to the manufacturer.  What exactly do you think they do with that product?  Do you think that it is economically feasible to just throw the entire unit out or do you think they reuse what they know isn't defective in order to save costs?   Hmmmm, I wonder.....especially in this unique world economy.

Klaus, keep on doing what your doing as I am a very satisfied customer.  Could you please do me a favor and have Alex design a tube usb DAC so I can run my computer media straight into my Candela.  Thanks!!!   :lol:

-Pete

klaus@odyssey

Re: Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think
« Reply #25 on: 11 Feb 2009, 09:18 am »
I am so beyond pissed here.  Just spent the last 90 minutes +  for a long and detailed response,  and we got a freaking 5 second black out.  Aaaaaaaargh.

Sorry guys,  won't be as detailed here and also not as dramatic as some of you might think.

In short now:

1.  Mike (Artillery)  is  a good guy,  and we have had a pretty good relation.  I called him last night to see what exactly is up,  and we talked for a long time,  and resolved a lot of things here.

2.  Yes,  he has indeed legitimate beef in some aspects,  and I admit that I screwed up.  But there are also some misunderstandings,  and in some areas,  Mike is wrong as well.

3.  Main issue,  the amps.  Last summer Mike came back to me,  upgrading from his Emotivas.  He had new EP's and wanted 4 monos for a kick ass system.  So,  to give him an absolute bang / buck here,  I made him a very special Kh. mono with near Kismet internals and even 2 of my Symphonic Line transformers.  The second pair was build around a used in-trade pair of SE's red boards.  Actually,  the main pair is probably not even broken in yet.  With everything tallied,  in the end I pretty much came away with close to  $ 0. in profits,  but that was fine.  Anyway,  it is true that when Mike got the amps I gave them to him without faces and with used tops,  because he had to wait for all new metal to be made,  and Mike was fine with that.
4.  It is also true that  the one Khartago amp for the bass / SE/  developed a problem.  So,  I put in another board.  Then  it had relays going nuts.  Picked it up again,  and dammit,  the transformer went nuts and caused all of these problems.  Aaaargh.  A really rare instance that I have only seen twice before with over 7000 transformers used.  Danm transformer.
Anyway, finished up another board and this time,  to make sure that everything was changed ,  after talking to Mike,  also changed case, caps etc.  Completely new amp.  Had different color caps and some resistors,  but specs were the same.
However,  yes,  Mike had the problems,  that is true.  Damn transformer.

5 Now,  as for customer service.  It is also true,  and here I made a big mistake,  that I somewhat pushed Mike to the backseat with the finishing of the amps metal.  Thought it would be ok,  but it was not,  and I should have been more sensitive to this.  However,  as for repairs and overall customer service:  I have been to Mike's 8 times,  and we spent a lot of time together,  actually.  He lives in downtown Indy,  so it's not a big deal.    Delivering the amps,  picking that one amp up twice,  delivering again,  dropping off face plates in a special blue,  dropping off top plates when I finally had them.  One night Mike called me that one of the amps was running hot.  So,  10 PM,  taking the bike,  down to Mikes checking on the bias,  which was to be re-adjusted a bit.  Not really that hot,  but then again,  who knows about voltage swings etc. ???  Actually,  I had an old Meter that I gave to Mike and showed him how to check the bias and offset so that he could make sure they are 100 % all the time,  since there are voltage changes at different times of the year.  So,  I have always been there pretty much right away,  even pushing other work aside.  Damn transformer.  BTW,  we listened for a while to his EP's and man oh man,  it sounded great.  Easily the best I have heard the speakers  and that without the main amps broken in yet.  Very nice.

6.  It is also true that when I delivered the amps to Mike,  one of the screws that hold the top cover down underneath the amp broke off on me.  Told Mike that I will take care of it when I'll get the tops to him.  So, one night last month we talked,  and I told him that I would be over late that night.  I had to brush metal first.  Well,  when I got to Mike's place,  he wasn't there. 11 pm,  stood in front of his apartment building.  and some people came in.  At least they let me in as well,  and I dropped off the last top cover for him in front of his door.  Actually,  it was a very funny elevator ride.  Here are 2 girls,  early 20's,  Mike's age as most in this kick-ass building of his.  And here I am.  Dirty and metal shaven clothes,  dirty face and hands,  wild hair,  standing next to them with a brown paper package (top)  in one hand and a drill and a long and sharp hammer tool in the other.  The girls were scared for their lives,  hehehe. 
Seriously though,  the fact is that I didn't take care of the screw to that point,  and Mike did it himself,  which was probably the last straw for him.  I understand.

7.  As for reliability.  Yes,  shit happens, but anyone who really knows the industry will appreciate this big time.  All in all,  and this includes over 1000  units that are at least 7-10 years old,   we have a problem rate of less than 5 % net !!!  And this includes parts failures,  our fk-ups (anybody telling you that they don't make any,  run away) and mostly user problems,  but also that of hum or grounding issues at user's places.  In short,  what I have to attend to.  This is a stellar number !!!!!  Throw in all of the Sl  units out there as well, and you know that the design is impeccable.  But like you guys said,  shit happens.  Damn transformer.  It is telling though how you take care of the problems,  may they be really small or major.  And yes,  I took care of Mike's problems very fast.  Just not the top covers. 

8.  It is also true that we are a true small family business.  3 people,  and I wouldn't change it for the world.  Actually,  there are a lot of obvious drawbacks,  especially when you consider that everything we do is hand made,  You guys have to wait for orders or upgrades,  and yes,  I'm working like a nut case.  However,  for me it is not a big deal.  With most work,  I always feel "Zen-like".  I can actually relax and think.   And then there is so much soccer to watch on Satellite,  hehehe.   Ultimately,  all of you guys know that you should call me in the evening.  During the day I have to run errands, do a lot of metal stuff,  and am on the phone nonstop.  And no,  you can't leave a message when I'm on the phone.  Should probably change the phone system.    And yes,  because I work until mornings many days,  I do sleep a little longer.  that's why our official business hours are from noon - 8 pm. 

9.  Finally to the Emotiva,  which has been raised here.  A couple of weeks ago when I went to Michigan I had the chance to listen to the RPA's side by side to the Stratos monos on a pair of Maggies 1.6's.  Yes,  I would take the Emotiva hands down over anything Outlaw or Denon etc.    Who knows,  maybe in some systems it might actually better the Stratos .

Let me put it this way:  Bigred,  whenever you want to,  I'll get you an amp out to compare side by side.

There are also a couple of other issues here that bug me.  Yes,  it is an amazing value as well for what you get for the money,  but looking at it,  we probably have twice the manufacturing cost in a Khartago than they do.  And I take pride,  real pride in having the amps made here in the US  by hand,  populating,  soldering,  5 step QC  process,  etc.  Real pride.  We are just not that huge multi-million Dollar corporation that has the typical 100 people plant in China,  paying less than a Dollar for labor.

With the Audioreview issue:  AR  is so passe and lost relevance a long time ago.   What I do care about is this site,  because I can be in constant or immediate contact with my own customers.  This is how it should work.  And even though I have very few posts,  I do monitor AC  several times a day,  so that I can respond right away.

Anyway,  rambled on again,  with a little less focus than earlier.  Again,  just wanted to make the points that Mike was correct in some ways here,  and I have to fess up to it.  However,  and as he would admit,  I'm sure,  there are also a few issues that were wrong on his part.   Either way, I am sorry that it came to this,  and actually made him to stand up to his word about taking me to dinner.  I'll cash in that chip in the next couple of weeks,  hehehe.  He's a good guy.  Frustrated,  but good.

Late,

Klaus


 
« Last Edit: 13 Feb 2009, 06:07 am by klaus@odyssey »

spacedghost

Re: Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think
« Reply #26 on: 11 Feb 2009, 12:48 pm »
Class!!

Shaun

lazydays

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Re: Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think
« Reply #27 on: 11 Feb 2009, 07:32 pm »
To all the masses,
Everything breaks; Count On It! Just that somethings crash more often than others do. I've never heard, let alone seen an Emotiva amp. Doubt that I ever will as well. Years ago I used an Accuphase amp, and replaced the MOS output transistors like clockwork every 30 months. But knew this was comming before the VU meter even gave me a clue. Would I buy another Accuphase amp? I doubt it as what I use now sounds a little better. Still if I ever leave my Glass Ceiling amps, I'll probbably go back to tubes (SET's) again (but don't bet the farm). I'll probably die with these mono blocs. That being said; I have had issues with other pieces of equipment in the past and even the present day.
I have a phono stage that's just plain giving me fits, and finally removed it from my downstairs system after retubing it for the third time in the last 18 months. I don't blame George Wright for this as it's a 1995 contraption, and still have the highest regard for Mr. Wright. But My 8260 is a completely different ball game. After one dead tuner and the 8260 I can't ever see anything from Marantz ever being in my living room. And to take this a step further lets all compair notes. I will make a post each and everytime I have an issue with anything Odyssey has it's name on it if you all will do the same.
                                                         ********************

Klaus, I see that I need to teach you how to remove broken screws! Little screws can be a bear, but can also be easy without a drill motor (no shavings, no marks, and usually never more than a couple minutes)

                                                         ********************
Per our latest conversation; expect a phone call from Mitch tonight concerning speakers.
The Mayor Of Greenwood
gary

Krueg

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 4
Re: Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think
« Reply #28 on: 24 Feb 2009, 07:55 pm »
BigRed,

I've owned two Odyssey systems, and have loved them both.  I've had two issues, and both were addressed properly by Klaus.  First system was:

Khartago Monos, Tempest Pre, and Lorelei speakers.  One of the amps failed pretty quickly, and the pre had an issue with hum in the phono stage, which is a known issue and Klaus has corrected it in the line as a whole.  I elected to get the amp fixed, and didn't at the time care about the phono stage.  The repair was handled quickly, and I was completely satisfied with the system.

I elected to upgrade my amps, and decided I wanted to play some of my old vinyl so I also wanted to get the phono stage fixed on the pre.  I ended up getting the high end Stratos Monos (not exactly sure if they're glass ceiling, or glass ceiling +/-), and moving to the Candela pre with a separate phono pre-amp.  All of the upgrades were handled at what I considered a fair price based on what I paid for the original system, and what it would cost me to buy new versions without the upgrade path available to me.

I have absolutely loved these systems, and enjoy talking to and working with Klaus.  The detail and clarity of the components to me is incredible.  Oh and by the way Klaus met me on the road to pickup my initial system for the repairs that were needed.  It was there that I decided on the upgrade after talking to him.

So as far as the quality of the product, to me it has been top notch.  As far as Klaus being there and standing behind his product, he is and he does. 

Take him up on his free trial offer, you won't be disappointed.

Brad

Eduardo AAVM

Re: Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think
« Reply #29 on: 11 Mar 2009, 03:45 pm »

On the other hand, Emotiva gear is made like a rock with tons of quality control. 


 :scratch:

Polywoofer

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Re: Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think
« Reply #30 on: 15 Mar 2009, 05:21 pm »

On the other hand, Emotiva gear is made like a rock with tons of quality control. 

ORLY????

letter sent to Emo about their QC      :green:



John,  Since you were there---
 
A copy of an e-mail I just sent -- enjoy
 
Fred
----------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Dan and Lonnie,
 
Thanks for the opportunity to try out the XPA-1's. I am in the process of packing all four of them for return.  It appears I have the wrong speakers for the amplifiers.   Further to our telcons, I have some notes and comments that you may find of value. 
 
As I explained to Dan, who generously offered me good pricing as a return customer,   I have been attempting to replace a high-power, high damping factor (over 10000) amplifier that I was driving two parallel Woofers with each of the L and R channels. It has been shipped to Japan and I now realize it was a mistake to have sold it.    I was using bridged XPA-2's to drive the HF horns.  The speakers weigh 300lbs each not including the separate crossover enclosure. 
 
http://homepage.mac.com/dkoya/audio/k2m9500.html
 
After reading your XPA-1 description with reference to its superior control and limitless power and comments that it would "laugh at a 2ohm load", I believed that two xpa-1s should easily replace the single Crown Reference 1 that I sold to acquire the XPA-1's.     When I unpacked and connected the XPA-1s to the woofer pairs,  I was greatly dissappointed that the was intolerably loose, muddy and boomy.  I couldn't raise the volume because energy remaining in the circuit was too highly annoying.   The motion of the heavy woofers just wouldn't stop quickly and crisply.    So I ordered two more, 1 for each woofer and was tri-amping, and beefed up the speaker leads to 4 conductors of 12awg from each amp.   The result was an improvement but still far short of the control I experienced with the amp I was replacing.   Although only 3 of four were operational, I concluded that four XPA1s still couldn't do it.  There was an improvement in the midrange and imaging, but not enough to be convincing.  It was obvious that an XPA-1 is definitely not the "control freak" as described in one of the publications.   
 
I then tried other amplifiers.   An $800 used Proceed HPA-2 stereo amp made by Levinson with a channel to each woofer sounded better than an HPA-1 on each woofer, but was still lacking in damping factor...  Next,  A pair of 20-year old Adcom GFA-565 monoblocks were tried because of their high damping factor of 800.   The bass was noticibly tighter, almost as good as my original amp, but unfortunately they were rough and muddied the midrange.
 
Having proven that higher damping factor was key,  I remembered that Lonnie once stated told me that damping factor for the XPA-2s was 500, not 200 as stated in the manuals.    I then connected an XPA-2 with a channel each to a woofer.  The bass tightness improved to a point somewhere between the XPA1's and the Adcoms as might be predicted according to damping factor. Of interest is that some re-equalizing was needed as seen on the spectrum analyzer before they sounded good.   A further note is that extensive acoustic work has been done with the approximately 3500 cubic foot room with favorable hgt, width length ratios. so the room should not be considered an issue.
 
My latest information is that the XPA1-s have an internal resistance of 0.04 ohms with an 8 ohm load that translates to a damping factor of 200.   When asked, Lonnie wasn't sure of this, which I found surprising.   One of your web pages states the THD of the XPA-1 as 0.001 at full power from 20-20,000.    The manual and bench tests implied a much different number.  I concluded that is that it is not a good sign if the primary representaives of the company are not sure of either the published or other critical specifications.  I had been rationalizing that this information might have been kept unavailable for competitive reasons.   
 
Some quality control issues:
 
1-A rubber foot came off one unit when sliding it sideways on a shelf.  Apply glue?
2-A trigger output failed to activate the next amplifier. Their sequence had to be rearranged.  Add series resistor to prevent damage from shorting, in the event someone is reaching behind the unit to feel the opening with the tip of the connector?
3-One of the amplifiers smoked from its rear center when the amplifier was first switched on.  Lonnie thought it was from the regulator board.  Power on test?
4-A leftmost blue level indicator lamp on one of the three working units stayed on after the others were triggered off.  It was erratic because it sometimes did stay off.  I thought I noticed it once on one of the other amps. Perhaps it is set too sensitive and noise induction from the speaker wiring activated it.
5-The power cords were 18 gauge as might be found for desk lamps and clock radios. The plastic jackets were so brittle at low temperature that you might need to caution users not to flex them until they get to room temperature.  When I saw this, I immediately re-wired for 240vac, as the Proceed amplifier with a similar kva rating had a 14 gauge cord.
6-The power connectors at the rear of the amplifers easily comes loose when the amplifier is shifted. Add a strain-relief outboard fastner that would hold the cord to the chassis?  Permanently wire the cord inside, with a strain relief and grommet through the chassis?
 
There are some qualities that I applaud, such as the automatic ac voltage switching, optical isolation for the trigger inputs and the addition of the trigger outputs for repeating. 
 
I know there are quality control issures with a new product, especially when manufacturing overseas.    I appreciate the opportunity to acquire a quality product at an affordable price, as has been my experience so far.   Might it be possible to sacrifice some phase alignment and other parameters and do some circuit tweaking to produce a separate model with high negative feedback?  A damping factor upwards of say 600 or so, maybe 1000, to drive difficult loads and add some "woofer authority"?
 
At least you don't have as tough a job as Obama!
 
Thanks and Regards,
 
F
 

yuppers great QC

zomone

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Re: Interested in Odyssey Stratos... i think
« Reply #31 on: 16 Mar 2009, 08:03 pm »
I don't want to beat a dead horse here but wanted to add my .02.  My first official post, yet I've been an Odyssey owner for about 7 years now.  I agree that there are always times when things aren't perfect and people will have negative experiences.  Nobody is perfect and it is part of the equation when looking for somebody you are comfortable with spending your hard earned money.  The one thing I always look at and have always put a large weight upon is customer service.  Since working with Klaus I will say I have had nothing but superb service.  I am not surprised by the thread here and to see Klaus jump in and try to "make it right".  We're all human but I think it speaks volumes to his character for wanting to make sure he can resolve any isssues.  If not, that's life, but to put that effort into your business says a lot.

As far as my experience, I will say that it has been nothing short of spectacular.  I can say that I have had NO major issues with my equipment.  I started off with a Stratos HT3 (3 channel) and shortly added a pair of Mono Extremes after enjoying my first amp for about a year.  The HT3 now runs my Center/Surrounds.  I have kept in touch with Klaus sparingly over the years but ran into a small issue a month ago.  I made a bonehead error swapping out some cables while on and blew one of the fuses.  I called Klaus and he returned my call in about 5 minutes.  I described the problem and in about 2 minutes he had the full explanation, which fuze, the part number and where to buy.  Took me all of 2 minutes to confirm and replace.  Sure beat the heck out of shipping 68lbs back out and having a down system.  Instead I had it operational in a few minutes.  The most impressive part was when Klaus called back it was like talking to an old friend.  He remembered exactly what I had (and which upgrades) and spent a few extra minutes chatting about my system and making sure I was happy.  I've been in the customer service business a long time and it just floored me.  Everyone values things differently but I would rather spend money knowing I have a quality company standing behind their product than just shopping for the cheapest deal (although I don't think you can beat the price/value proposition w/ Odyssey).

Unfortunately after talking to Klaus, I had to drive through Indy and bit the bullet to have the HT3 upgraded! :)  I continue to be amazed at Klaus' honesty and openness (about not spending money that you don't need to).  We discussed my plans and it made sense...so he went to work and I was just amazed after getting my amp back.  It's just awesome being able to collaborate with someone and have him be flexible with your plans.  When it was all said and done, he pulled the 3rd channel out and converted my HT3 to an Stereo Extreme and put the 3rd channel into it's own enlosure.  I can't wait to really get this system rocking.  I also decided to try some of the Gronebergs out so I'll have a lot to play with over the next couple weeks!! (Love this hobby!!)

BigRed - the best advice I can give you is TRY Them.  Everyone has a personal taste (in sound and types of music).  I am definitely not an engineer and can't get super technical on every circuit, etc...but I know what sounds good to me.  Take Klaus up on his word and have him let you try one out to see what you think.  You have NOTHING to Lose.  That's the best way to make an appropriate decision.  At least you'll have some fun swapping things out and enjoying some music you love!

Cheers!