[mfsoa]

Sorry for the point 'n' shoot flash photos, but it shows what's going on at least. Probably didn't capture all of the panels.

(I just draped the patterned cloths over the panels for fun - The ones behind the speakers look much better turned 90°, as diamonds)

I just got 4 more of the GIK D1 diffusers (big pain in the butt shipping delays but GIK did a good job keeping up...). 2 went on the outside of the speakers, at driver level (the VR4JRs have a rear firing tweeter so the diffusion on the front wall is really effective). The other 2 went over my head and are aligned horizontally. This really works well!!    When forced to have the rear wall close behind, the diffusers above add a lot of air that I didn't think was possible in this room. I figure some of the sound hits them and gets sent down to me, but some goes up to the ceiling and then back down, giving the impression of more space than there is.


There seems to be an inverse proportionality between image specificity and spaciousness of the sound. Although the room sounds better overall w/ the extra diffusion, I think I lost a bit of the spooky image specificity I had before, which came at the expense of over-damping. I guess this is one of the balancing acts we shoot for, and one thing that sets the great systems apart from the rest. Sounds great overall (to me).  Thought I'd share...

And no, the remotes don't work through the panel in front of the rack - Bryan/Glenn, can we have an IR-transparent panel, please?

[launche]

There seems to be an inverse proportionality between image specificity and spaciousness of the sound. Although the room sounds better overall w/ the extra diffusion, I think I lost a bit of the spooky image specificity I had before, which came at the expense of over-damping. I guess this is one of the balancing acts we shoot for, and one thing that sets the great systems apart from the rest.

This is my experience as well and one of the true balancing acts in this game. 

Enjoy.

[JackD201]

There seems to be an inverse proportionality between image specificity and spaciousness of the sound. Although the room sounds better overall w/ the extra diffusion, I think I lost a bit of the spooky image specificity I had before, which came at the expense of over-damping. I guess this is one of the balancing acts we shoot for, and one thing that sets the great systems apart from the rest.

This is my experience as well and one of the true balancing acts in this game. 

Enjoy.

I totally agree as well. I've found that speaker positioning contributes much more than just using the AR tweeters to "compensate". If one takes the time to judiciously tweak placement (sometimes as little as a fraction of an inch) to fully achieve image lock with the AR tweeters off (easiest to do with a mono recording or a summed L+R signal) the use of the AR tweeters will later be literally icing on the cake.

[oldmp3]

Sorry for the point 'n' shoot flash photos, but it shows what's going on at least. Probably didn't capture all of the panels.

Mfsoa,

Looks like a bit of change from your original configuration - I too have 3 GIK panels vertically behind the rear couch - room configuration is somewhat similar to yours.   Adding GIK tri-traps in the front corners was a winner also.  I'm interested if you can tell us what kind of audio rack you have there shown in an earlier post?  Very attractive.   

You certainly must have a wonderful SO to squeeze all those panels in 

I just ordered Salk SongTowers and am excited to hear them in now better sounding room.

Good luck with your continuing "balancing act".

[mfsoa]

The rack is a Salamander Archetype.

Looking at the web site, it must be a TV40 model.

[Big Red Machine]

Sitting against that back wall is not helping one bit.  Can you rotate the room 90 degrees?  I had a hellacious time when I was sitting back against my back wall.  Once I got the seat 4 feet off the back wall the sound was mucho better.

If you're stuck, then it would seem absorbing as much as possible behind you would be a better route than the diffusion.  That way your brain isn't getting all confused on where the sound is coming from with all those near reflections.

[bpape]

An IR tranparent panel 

That's going to be a tough one.  Maybe just an IR repeater? 

Bryan

[mfsoa]

BRM,
Nope, can't do the 90° thing. It would cause major asymmetry and put one speaker directly in the entrance to the room, regardless of which 90° I spun things. You can see the room entrances on each side of the rear wall.

So this'll do for now. I do have the absorber right behind my head, and the diffusers are far enough away as to not "blast" me with confused sound (I think).

It's all a balancing act, like anything else.

Thanks for the suggestion.

-Mike

[JackD201]

Sitting against that back wall is not helping one bit.  Can you rotate the room 90 degrees?  I had a hellacious time when I was sitting back against my back wall.  Once I got the seat 4 feet off the back wall the sound was mucho better.

If you're stuck, then it would seem absorbing as much as possible behind you would be a better route than the diffusion.  That way your brain isn't getting all confused on where the sound is coming from with all those near reflections.

In theory, for as long as the distance of your ears to the rear wall is less than approximately the circumference of your head you will still be within the Haas window and the reflections shouldn't be processed by the brain. That is unless the wall itself was resonating in which case simply moving away from it is not enough. Think green glue.

[bpape]

It's more a matter of bass buildup near the boundary directly behind.   The diffusion will be effective not only at providing aural cues from other places in the room providing more 'air' and sense of space - but also at minimizing slap between the upper portions of the front and rear walls.

Bryan

[JackD201]

It's more a matter of bass buildup near the boundary directly behind.   The diffusion will be effective not only at providing aural cues from other places in the room providing more 'air' and sense of space - but also at minimizing slap between the upper portions of the front and rear walls.

Bryan

I see what you mean. The two white diffusor's shape and spacing look like they would substantially reduce loading potential between the ceiling and rear wall.

[Big Red Machine]

Even at 4 feet I took Bryan's advice and made 6" traps behind me that are 1" off the wall.  I think Bryan and Glenn were pretty happy with my result given the always present room constraints we deal with.  Someday, a perfect room from the ground up!

[Big Red Machine]

Here's a shot:

[JackD201]

Someday, a perfect room from the ground up!

May this happen for all of us

[Scottdazzle]

Mike (mfsoa),

Why do you have an absorber in front of your equipment? I haven't seen that approach before?

Scott

[mfsoa]

Scott,

I find that it cuts down on sound splashing around in the rack and coming back out - helps image focus by mopping up the nasties (not yet trademarked if you are interested, GIK  ). I've also taken to putting a small rectangular pillow in front of the TT if I'm getting really serious.

The panel in front is just sitting there so sometimes I use it, sometimes not like if I know I'm going to use the remotes. It could be doing some bass trapping as well?

It also blocks the various lights the equipment makes - much appreciated at night.

-Mike

[max190]

Mike, with those openings on each side of the LP, I guess you are not getting bass buildup with being that close to the wall?

Have you ever tried any panels on your ceiling... say at the mid point between you and the spkrs, or above your LP?

[mfsoa]

Yup, I have a 242 on the ceiling roughly at the first reflection point. Didn't show in the pics. I wish it was maybe 6' wide though - each speaker is just barely "blocked" by the very outer edges of the single panel if I mentally trace the reflection points back to the speakers.

And perceptive you are about the bass build-up!!    Each of those openings leads to the rest of the first floor of the house - When I'm at the far-end of the house from the system (~45'), I can feel some very low bass notes being supported by the whole first floor, conducted through these openings. So I get nice low bass w/ little build-up, and the imaging and intimacy aspects that come w/ a small room  The Ravers seemed to comment about the nice bass from the Vons, esp. w/ the DAC Cherry amp. I do get some bass reinforcement for sure being so close, but the room supports bass better than it should IMO (Better than a typical 13 x 18 room IMO). Also, when I do the "clap" test, I can tell that there is some ambience info coming back into the room through these openings.

You can see now why I have chosen this orientation for this room.

Also, as shown before (probably pics in the October 07 NYAR thread) the suspended wood floor in the main room is extensively braced/caulked using two 12' 4" by 4"s (front to back of room) and 4 adjustable basement support columns. This bracing proved absolutely essential to the sound I'm now getting.

Thanks for taking the time to comment everyone!

-Mike