[rcag_ils]

I can't speaker for the new recording, because I don't have that many. But for all the older recording I have, the same title don't sound the same in CD and vinyl format.

The vinyl format always sound more accurate than the CD, after all the signal on CD has been altered from the true source, therefore it's not accurate.

After reading the discussion about CD transport in the other thread, someone stated that the digital output need not to be a true square wave, just good enough for the DAC to recognize the 1s and 0s, it further re-enforces my love for vinyl. CD is to convert an inaccurate and altered signal back to a cleaner analog signal, therefore it's not true to the original source. So why would we want to listen to that? Remember, music is a continuous mechanical  energy, not bits and pits.

If I live an hectic life, yes, I'd throw in a CD, but to really enjoy what the music can bring to my life, I listen to vinyl, that's the difference.

[geezer]

It was about 20 years ago I decided to buy my first CD player. After listening to a lot of music on vinyl vs CD, I gave away all my vinyl records and my turntable, and I don't miss the fiddling at all. As far as I can tell, CDs are at least as good as vinyl and the convenience can't be beat. Neither of my preamps has a phono stage.

[bmckenney]

Been on Ebay again,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360130421120&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123


                                                   

I WANT I WANT!!!

BTW how do you like the ECC801s's Mark? Have you compared them to th ECC81's?

Can you give me some thoughts about tube rolling the T8 line stage?  I heard things like its pretty subtle in the T8.  But I have heard there some excellant NOS 6N1P tube equivalents out there that make a big difference in some applications.

Thanks,
Bryan

[avahifi]

One of my clients generously sent me a few new old stock 6N1P tubes.  In our T8 and Ultra preamps, I could not hear any significant difference between these and the stock Sovtecs we use in production.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[rcag_ils]

I gave away all my vinyl records and my turntable, and I don't miss the fiddling at all. As far as I can tell, Cd's are at least as good as vinyl and the convenience can't be beat.

That's the problem, a great percentage of the music listeners out there ditched their vinyl and go for the CD due to the lack of knowledge of how to set up a good analog system.

Turntables are not plug and play. It requires perfect geometry. Towards the end of the 80's, most people only had a mediocre turntable and don't bother to set it up properly, that pretty much explained why the CD sound seemed superior than the old analog.

A good quality turntable, tonearm and cartridge combination can outperform a good CD system, because the source material on the CD has been altered to begin with.

It's not the debate of whether if digital sounds better than analog, or vise verse, it's the question of how the source material are being retrieved and played back accurately, it's an issue of true science.

The sale of vinyl is steadily climbing, but I doubt that it will go back to the days when record stores were on every street corner, but that's OK, because as long as people are hanging onto their old records, vinyl playback system will never be obsolete, and it will live on.

[oneinthepipe]

The sale of vinyl is steadily climbing, but I doubt that it will go back to the days when record stores were on every street corner, but that's OK, because as long as people are hanging onto their old records, vinyl playback system will never be obsolete, and it will live on.

Remember when LPs were 3.99 or 4.99 and CDs were 7.99 or 8.99, if my memory serves me correctly?  LPs have certainly climbed in price, while downloaded music appears to bottoming out, price-wise.  Amazon, in whatever music download format they use, had the recently-released Coldplay album for 1.99.

I have gotten some good deals on LPs, but they are more expensive than CDs.

I wish there was more music, both older music and current music, on vinyl.  At a recent Shelby Lynne concert, she admonished the audience to play her music on her "records" rather than her CDs.  Of course, when the concert was over, there appeared to be two LP sales (and I bought one of them), and the CDs sold out.  I recently read in an on-line article that she stated that she thought her musical career was over after she converted her studio to digital recording.  Subsequently, she was able to regain possession of her 2" tape machine.  Nevertheless, I can easily understand why the music from a $100.00 turntable with cartridge, for example, does not seem to sound as good as the music from a comparatively-priced CDP or DVP in a mediocre system.  I don't think many serious listeners believe that a good digital system is better than a good analog system, other factors notwithstanding.  However, with the convenience of CDs and computer-based music, a good quality and properly set-up turntable is apparently not for the majority of listeners.

[charmerci]

rcag_ils,

What is your stereo setup?

[Listens2tubes]

Been on Ebay again,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360130421120&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123


                                                   

I WANT I WANT!!!

BTW how do you like the ECC801s's Mark? Have you compared them to th ECC81's?

Can you give me some thoughts about tube rolling the T8 line stage?  I heard things like its pretty subtle in the T8.  But I have heard there some excellant NOS 6N1P tube equivalents out there that make a big difference in some applications.

Thanks,
Bryan

I found the vintage Mullard and Telefunken tubes to be more detailed, with more air and larger sound stage than the thin sound of the JJ's that came stock in my Pas 4i updated T8. Meanwhile I would like to track down some factory platinum matched Electo Harmonix 12AX7's for comparison. But this is all pointless when the new T8 uses 6n1p's.

I have Curcio Upgrade all triode driver boards for my Dynaco MkIV amps which allow use of 6DJ8,6CG7,6n1p, 6922,7308 and their euro variants ie: ECC88. While I have a larder of most of these I have matched 4 pairs of 6n1p's for my baseline. Of coarse this may all be phoo-phoo to some but, Frank's designs can be very revealing. BTW if you think this is over the top I won't tell you about the Oil in Paper russian caps I've got,,, well let's not get me carried away Let's just say I've got ideas.  

[rcag_ils]

Remember when LPs were 3.99 or 4.99 and CDs were 7.99 or 8.99, if my memory serves me correctly?  LPs have certainly climbed in price, while downloaded music appears to bottoming out, price-wise.  Amazon, in whatever music download format they use, had the recently-released Coldplay album for 1.99.

I have gotten some good deals on LPs, but they are more expensive than CDs.

I remember when LPs were $6.99, and CDs were $15.99 and up, that was during the transition period when record companies were making LPs and CDs at the same time for the same titles. I knew what was coming, and I snatched up lots of new LPs at the time. I also heard that Sony purposely destroy numerous Lps to force consumers to purchase CDs.

My main sources for Lps are pretty much from garage sales, used record stores, library sales and so on, and there's nothing beats the feeling of scoring a rare Lps in like new condition. I bought some new LPs, but like you said they are expensive due to the limited numbers of pressing.

However, with the convenience of CDs and computer-based music, a good quality and properly set-up turntable is apparently not for the majority of listeners.

Although it's also a correct statement, they are probably just average listeners.  Listeners with analytical in nature actually enjoy setting up turntables, because they are probably more result oriented. Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with listening to CDs other than Cds is an inaccurate medium.

[rcag_ils]

What is your stereo setup?

My main setup is : AVA Ultra 550, AVA 4i, AVA Ultra DAC, Magnepan MMG, Systemdek IIX with Profile arm, Sonograph SG-3, Ariston 11 Superieur with SME arm, AR turntable, Harman Kardon T-60, Empire 598, Project 6.1, Philips 212, Thorens TD-125 MKII with Rega R200 arm, and others

[Brett Buck]

I don't think many serious listeners believe that a good digital system is better than a good analog system, other factors notwithstanding. 

    Oy Vey! I have had "as-good-as-it-gets" version of both - and there's no debate in my mind that digital is generally *far* more accurate- not even close. And objective evidence backs it up. But I won't get into it anymore, it's a pointless argument that will convince no one either way.

   There are still people waxing poetic over 300B SET amps with 10% distortion at 2 watts, there's no point in arguing any of this stuff.

     Brett

[martyo]

What is your stereo setup?

My main setup is : AVA Ultra 550, AVA 4i, AVA Ultra DAC, Magnepan MMG, Systemdek IIX with Profile arm, Sonograph SG-3, Ariston 11 Superieur with SME arm, AR turntable, Harman Kardon T-60, Empire 598, Project 6.1, Philips 212, Thorens TD-125 MKII with Rega R200 arm, and others

Nice set. Did you listen to the Maggies first or just take a chance? They always gave a lot of sound for the money. My very first turntable was the Phillips GA-212, nylon bearing and all, and a good friend just stumbled on a mint Thorens and bought it for his kid.

[rcag_ils]

I had a chance to listen to my friend's maggie first before the purchase, after driving them with the AVA Ultra, that kind of rid the myth of maggie don't have enough of bass, plenty of bass for me.

Don't get me wrong, Cds are nice, and I am perfectly happy with my Cds set up. I listen to old recording most of the time, and I think something went wrong when they convert older recording into digital format, something got lost  went they chopped up the analog signal and recreated it.

The newer material that were recorded with digital technology may have sounded better, however.

[martyo]

It sounds like they are a killer deal for the price, $799 now I think.
I never cared for Cd's until I got the DAC. I like the old recordings of jazz, amazing richness.

[turkey]

I personally don't know any audiophile, or music enthusiast who has a phonoless preamp. Vinyl records are what started this whole audio hobby. There's something in the vinyl records that can never be replaced by CDs, some says music is created mechanically and only can be retrieved mechanically, not by some laser scanning a plastic disc coated with aluminum.

No number of phono stage is enough for me.

As good as the Insight phono stage is, records just don't sound as good to me as CDs do.

I inherited my father's collection of LPs because nobody else in the family was interested in them. A lot of them are not available on CD AFAIK. (I also have a bunch of 78s, but that's another story altogether.)

I like playing some of these old records, but that's in spite of the fidelity, not because of it.

[turkey]

It's not the debate of whether if digital sounds better than analog, or vise verse, it's the question of how the source material are being retrieved and played back accurately, it's an issue of true science.

CD sounds very close to what's on the master tape. LP less so.

If you're looking at it scientifically, CD is far, far superior to LP.

[turkey]

Listeners with analytical in nature actually enjoy setting up turntables, because they are probably more result oriented. Personally

I prefer listening to music over setting up turntables.

[turkey]

Don't get me wrong, Cds are nice, and I am perfectly happy with my Cds set up. I listen to old recording most of the time, and I think something went wrong when they convert older recording into digital format, something got lost  went they chopped up the analog signal and recreated it.

<sigh>


From Nyquist-Shannon:

"If a function x(t) contains no frequencies higher than B cps, it is completely determined by giving its ordinates at a series of points spaced 1/(2B) seconds apart."

[geezer]

Don't get me wrong, Cds are nice, and I am perfectly happy with my Cds set up. I listen to old recording most of the time, and I think something went wrong when they convert older recording into digital format, something got lost  went they chopped up the analog signal and recreated it.

<sigh>


From Nyquist-Shannon:

"If a function x(t) contains no frequencies higher than B cps, it is completely determined by giving its ordinates at a series of points spaced 1/(2B) seconds apart."

Now you've done it! This post is going to result in a bunch more explaining that science doesn't matter, and that "I know what I'm hearing."

[rajacat]

Well....Since you've been ranting about science so much let's see some proof to support your point of view. I want to see scientific papers from more than one source that have been subjected to peer review. If you're happy listening to an imperfect reproduction of the analog wave form more power to you after all some can't tell tell the difference between Ripple and a fine Sonoma cabernet sauvignon.

-Roy