[rayr0683]

Hello All,

           I have a VPI HW19 MK.IV Turntable with a ZETA Vandenhul Silver wired Tonearm. All of this is/was brand new with Factory Drilled Precut ZETA Armboard from VPI.  I have the TNT Upgrades to my Table, such as Platter and Bearing.  I have mo issues with the Table whatsoever, I love it.  Mike at VPI says they only discontinued making the HW19 Mk.IV Tables because they were too expensive to make, but told me that I have a Table that there isn't much to upgrade on, except possibly a VPI Tonearm in the future.  He also recommends keeping the suspension Sprung, rather than the Foam Isolation supports. But said that I could experiment if I so desired.

          None of that is my problem.  My problem is, I have not been doing much in the way of Audio for some years now, have young children, and they take priority.  But I wanted to get a New Cartridge, or Sound from my Vinyl. Since I have a ZETA Arm, which is a Medium to High Mass Arm, 16 Grams Effective Mass. I was wondering if I could take advantage of any of these great sounding Budget Cartridges...such as AT440mlx, or AT150mlx....or Denon DL110 or DL160??  I even had interest in some Goldrings, or possibly a Shure V15 III....I was wondering if at 16 Grams Effective Mass, I would be ok with the Compliance of these cartridges???

          I can tell you that I have used the GRADO Signature TLZ, without a problem, and I did try the HiFi News Test Record, and the Resonant Frequency seemed to really shake etc..at right around 10 HZ.  which I think would be very good.  I wanted to try a New Cartridge, and was wondering if anyone here remembers the ZETA Tonearm, and has a possible Cartridge Reccommendation that would mate well with it??  I find the Grado a nice sounding cartridge, the TLZ...and I liked the ATOC9..but found it a bit on the Bright Side.  I would like something more in the middle of the 2 cartridges.....any suggestions??  Thanks, Ray

[ckline]

Not sure what your phonostage is but you might want to try this:

http://www.sound-smith.com/denon/index.html

[rayr0683]

I am using an Audio Research SP9 Preamp, which has 67 DB of Gain.  I have been able to use Cartridges with an output voltage of .4mv such as ATOC9, but I dont think I can go for a Lower Output Voltage than that. .4mv seems to be the limit for me with this Preamp. If that helps any with recommendations.   Thanks, Ray

[TheChairGuy]

Mike at VPI says they only discontinued making the HW19 Mk.IV Tables because they were too expensive to make, but told me that I have a Table that there isn't much to upgrade on, except possibly a VPI Tonearm in the future.

I had long suspected this.  The acrylic platter on the later HW-19 tables were more a cost saving move than anything else...the original cork/lead/rubber ones must have cost considerably more to make - and taken more time, too.

Which makes many of the old HW-19 tables (particularly Mk. III and IV ones) great tables to invest upgrade dollars in.

Good luck and welcome back (of sorts) to vinyl...

John

[rayr0683]

Thanks John,

                 Yes, in fact Mike stressed that the HW19 especially the Mk.III and Mk.IV were as good as it gets.  And the cost was astronomical in the making of them/versus profit.  So, He said that even though many owners are trying out foam suspensions, etc....instead of the springs...he said that it wasn't really the wisest of moves.  He said you could play with it, such as faom, etc...and you will get a slightly different sound, not a better sound.  He claimed that as designed it was a very costly table to make, and is best left that way.  He said the only possible upgrade for me was if they made me an armboard for the 10.5" JMW Tonearm with VTA adjustment, at about $2100.00.......unless I decided to go Demo and it would cost me $1600.00 for the same upgrade.  He said then I would have myself a table that would be tough to beat.  But that isnt exactly where I was looking to go.  I want a Cartridge....but one that will suit my 16 Effective Mass Arm...and is someplace in between the Grado and the AT-OC9.   Thanks, Ray

[doug s.]

i have always enjoyed my ortofon mc25-fl, but i have note really had a lot of experience comparing...

doug s.

[satfrat]

i have always enjoyed my ortofon mc25-fl, but i have note really had a lot of experience comparing...

doug s.

HEY Doug,,, welcome back. Haven't seen ya around for awhile.

Cheers,
Robin

[arthurs]

I'm using the Denon DL-160 with the Zeta and it's a great combination IMO

[doug s.]

i have always enjoyed my ortofon mc25-fl, but i have note really had a lot of experience comparing...

doug s.

HEY Doug,,, welcome back. Haven't seen ya around for awhile.

Cheers,
Robin

thanks, robin - it feels good to be back.  good enough that i yust coughed up some bucks for the site's fund-raising drive...   

hippo gnu ears!

doug s

[satfrat]

i have always enjoyed my ortofon mc25-fl, but i have note really had a lot of experience comparing...

doug s.

HEY Doug,,, welcome back. Haven't seen ya around for awhile.

Cheers,
Robin

thanks, robin - it feels good to be back.  good enough that i yust coughed up some bucks for the site's fund-raising drive...   

hippo gnu ears!

doug s

Yep, read it and I'm jeolous. I've been unemployed for 15 months now. Congrates with your new "labor of love".

Cheers,
Robin

[doug s.]

i have always enjoyed my ortofon mc25-fl, but i have note really had a lot of experience comparing...

doug s.

HEY Doug,,, welcome back. Haven't seen ya around for awhile.

Cheers,
Robin

thanks, robin - it feels good to be back.  good enough that i yust coughed up some bucks for the site's fund-raising drive...   

hippo gnu ears!

doug s

Yep, read it and I'm jeolous. I've been unemployed for 15 months now. Congrates with your new "labor of love".

Cheers,
Robin

ya, i know, i feel your pain, man.     the only thing worse than having a yob is not having one!       best in your search...  i dunno how i could have survived much more w/o working - another coupla months, and not only would i have had to start selling my "toys", but i likely would have been looking at foreclosure, etc...  it amazes me that you are able to hold on as long as you have.  that you're still sane...  you are sane, aren't you?   

doug s.

[satfrat]

i have always enjoyed my ortofon mc25-fl, but i have note really had a lot of experience comparing...

doug s.

HEY Doug,,, welcome back. Haven't seen ya around for awhile.

Cheers,
Robin

thanks, robin - it feels good to be back.  good enough that i yust coughed up some bucks for the site's fund-raising drive...   

hippo gnu ears!

doug s

Yep, read it and I'm jeolous. I've been unemployed for 15 months now. Congrates with your new "labor of love".

Cheers,
Robin

ya, i know, i feel your pain, man.     the only thing worse than having a yob is not having one!       best in your search...  i dunno how i could have survived much more w/o working - another coupla months, and not only would i have had to start selling my "toys", but i likely would have been looking at foreclosure, etc...  it amazes me that you are able to hold on as long as you have.  that you're still sane...  you are sane, aren't you?   

doug s.

I worked for 35 years at the same job and saved some money for retirement. I'm now blowing that retirement money early but the way i look at it, at 57 and knowing both my father & grandfather died at 67, I'm enjoying the moment for what it is, being alive. I'll enjoy the moment while I have it and when the time comes that things have reached their peak,, I'll deal with it. But I refuse to worry about it. For now it's music, movies and AudioCircle. I'm still good for a year or 2 more,,, if I stop buying toys.

Cheers,
Robin

[sturgus]

Hey Ray, I love my HW19 also. I have had it since the 80's. It started out as an HW19-1 and I upgraded the platter to an early TNT model. Just put a AQ PT-9 on it with a V15-RS  and am having a blast.I can not believe how good this cartridge sounds. I had it setting on the shelf for around 10 years at least. I bought 2 of them when Radio Shack was closing them out for $20. I gave one away and now I wish I had kept it. I think in someways  it sounds better than my V15-V MR . I just saw that VPI is coming out with a new table that looks very close to a HW19 for around 2500. Just love the classic styling.
Sturgus
http://www.vpiindustries.com/index.htm

[rayr0683]

Hey, Thanks for the reply.  I got my VPI in the 80's too. Started as a Junior, and then a Mk.III   then in the 90's I upgraded the same TNT route to the Mk.IV  I dont know if I can do the same as you are with cartridges, since my arm is the ZETA...a great Arm, but Higher Mass..16 Effective Grams. So Im not sure I can use the High Compliance SHure V15, much as Id love to.  That is the main reason for My Post here.  Im looking for Help in that regard.  My Arm is not a Low Mass Arm, so I need a stiffer Compliance Cartridge.  I would love a SHURE V15 or one of the Great AT cartridges MM type, such as AT440mla, or AT150mlx.  Anyone know if Id be ok with these???  Please help me out?
        Thanks, Ray

[dcbingaman]

Hi, Ray.  I've got an HW-19 Mk. IV with the heavy platter and a Zeta Black arm, also.  It works great with the Clearaudio MM's like the Aurum Beta S, Virtuoso and Maestro.  I've been told the Zeta is the trick set-up for low compliance MC's like the Denon DL-103, but this baby only puts out .25mv.  Everyone I've talked to says the Zeta, like the SME V, has never met a cartridge it could not make behave.  I would just find a cartridge that sounds good to you and not worry too much about compliance.

I bought the table with a beautifully made VPI 10.5 uni-pivot but I just didn't like the sound.  I've owned three uni-pivots starting with the ole' Magnapan Unitrac, and they ALL were a pain to set up and never sounded right to me - no real bottom end.  I don't think they really work well with low or medium compliance cartridges, no matter what VPI, Graham, Fremer or anyone else says.  Too much monkey-motion in azimuth for my tastes.  I think a SME 309, IV or V is the best all-around arm you can buy, and a Zeta in good shape is damn close.  Too bad they stopped making them.

[Wayner]

Hey, Thanks for the reply.  I got my VPI in the 80's too. Started as a Junior, and then a Mk.III   then in the 90's I upgraded the same TNT route to the Mk.IV  I dont know if I can do the same as you are with cartridges, since my arm is the ZETA...a great Arm, but Higher Mass..16 Effective Grams. So Im not sure I can use the High Compliance SHure V15, much as Id love to.  That is the main reason for My Post here.  Im looking for Help in that regard.  My Arm is not a Low Mass Arm, so I need a stiffer Compliance Cartridge.  I would love a SHURE V15 or one of the Great AT cartridges MM type, such as AT440mla, or AT150mlx.  Anyone know if Id be ok with these???  Please help me out?
        Thanks, Ray

Ray, Great album your listening to.

Wayner 

[rayr0683]

Hi Wayner,

                       Thanks for the compliment!  I think you and I like the same music.  You commented on my listening once before.  We could probably make some great tapes for eachother....  Ray

Hey, Thanks for the reply.  I got my VPI in the 80's too. Started as a Junior, and then a Mk.III   then in the 90's I upgraded the same TNT route to the Mk.IV  I dont know if I can do the same as you are with cartridges, since my arm is the ZETA...a great Arm, but Higher Mass..16 Effective Grams. So Im not sure I can use the High Compliance SHure V15, much as Id love to.  That is the main reason for My Post here.  Im looking for Help in that regard.  My Arm is not a Low Mass Arm, so I need a stiffer Compliance Cartridge.  I would love a SHURE V15 or one of the Great AT cartridges MM type, such as AT440mla, or AT150mlx.  Anyone know if Id be ok with these???  Please help me out?
        Thanks, Ray

Ray, Great album your listening to.

Wayner 

[rayr0683]

Hi dc,

           Thank you for the feedback on the ZETA..........I have had mine since new, along with my first VPI HW19 MK.II and I upgraded my VPI's from there to the IV.  I was advised to the ZETA arm, when the Turntable guy there told me what a great arm it was, and that he too had one on his Goldmund Studio........which after we became friends, he took me to his place and showed me.  He was making DIY speakers back in 1986. And he used the ZETA Arm, but he was able to use more expensive LO MC Cartridges.  I was pretty much stuck on HO MC Cartridges.  Besides the Grado Signature TLZ, and the AT-OC9, my other cartridges were all in the same range.  I never tried the Shure V15...or Goldring 1042....and some cartridges like that.  I was able to drive the AT-OC9 at .4 mv output.....but the Denon DL103 is at something like .3mv output, so not suire there.  BUt people have recommended the HO Denons, like the 110 or the 160....Great to meet someone with the same table front end, and ZETA Arm.  I too much prefer the VPI HW19 MK.IV Turntables over the Scout and Airies.....I talked to Mike at VPI and he admitted that the HW19 Series was just too expensive for them to keep making. And agreed that my table was better than his newer tables that were out, but cost was a killer on these.  He also recommended keeping the Table Suspended for best sound, unless I was dead set on trying the Foam Isolation methosd, but he said Id lose alot of the airiness that I now have.  Both first rate winners, VPI and ZETA.  I received alot of emails about just how great the ZETA Arm is, BTW..so thanks, it does look like a work of art..........Ray

Hi, Ray.  I've got an HW-19 Mk. IV with the heavy platter and a Zeta Black arm, also.  It works great with the Clearaudio MM's like the Aurum Beta S, Virtuoso and Maestro.  I've been told the Zeta is the trick set-up for low compliance MC's like the Denon DL-103, but this baby only puts out .25mv.  Everyone I've talked to says the Zeta, like the SME V, has never met a cartridge it could not make behave.  I would just find a cartridge that sounds good to you and not worry too much about compliance.

I bought the table with a beautifully made VPI 10.5 uni-pivot but I just didn't like the sound.  I've owned three uni-pivots starting with the ole' Magnapan Unitrac, and they ALL were a pain to set up and never sounded right to me - no real bottom end.  I don't think they really work well with low or medium compliance cartridges, no matter what VPI, Graham, Fremer or anyone else says.  Too much monkey-motion in azimuth for my tastes.  I think a SME 309, IV or V is the best all-around arm you can buy, and a Zeta in good shape is damn close.  Too bad they stopped making them.