[2gumby2]

There are good reviews of Herbie's Black Hole CD mat at his web site. Just looking for opinons from Audio Circle members on this product. The Herbie's Way Excellent Mat seems to have a good reputation and I'm planning on getting one next month for my Technics SL-1200, but wondered if the Black Hole might have some merit as well.   http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/cdmat.htm

[TheChairGuy]

Bump...just happened to want to know this as well.

I have his old mat (circa 2004 or so), but wanted to know if moving to the Black Hole would be worthwhile.

The old mat didn't work in my prior top loading deck...all of these damping discs will work in my newer front loading universal player.

John

[DTB300]

I like the Black Hole over the old CD disc/mat Herbie had.  Even though he calls it the Black Hole, I still like his name of Grungebuster as that is what it seems to do for disc.  IMO it helps with all parts of the music spectrum. 

BTW, I use mine by putting it on and taking it off each disc.  I keep the CD in the jewel case to help put the BH on the disc, then remove CD and place in player.  I have a front loading player.  When it starts to not adhere as well, then a quick treatment with some masking tape brings it back to life - tackiness wise. 

They are cheap to try out to see if you like them or not.  Like anything else in this hobby you need to try and determine for yourself.  Me, I think it is a no brainer on using them.

[Danberg]

This may appear crazy, but I attempted something different, and usually liked the results. 

Reading postings about after market items available to purchase that can be placed on Cd's to make them sound better gave me an idea.  Being frugal, I put an old Cd on top of the Cd I was playing.  My previous deck allowed me to do this.  In most cases it appeared to "improve" the sound.  Took some of the harshness out, while making it sound "cleaner."  Not a dramatic change in sound but one that was noticeable on most discs!

Before investing any money, you may want to try this yourself.

[2gumby2]

Thanks for the input. There is so much Snake Oil and magic Fairy Dust in this hobby that I've become a skeptic on many products that claim to improve sound.

[batmanslc2]

I bought a few and liked the result.  THey are cheap so worth a try.
I ended up giving them to friends though after I got this:

http://www.aaudioimports.com/ShowProduct.asp?hProduct=12

Millennium M-CD MAT / CARBON CD DAMPER 

more money, but all the reviews are right on            enjoy!

[TheChairGuy]

Some of the best sounding CD's I've heard are ones from my library.

They have an applied layer of plastic material holding down the security theft strip underneath.  The CD's are notably heavier and less resonant than standard discs one buys.  The old Herbie's mat seemed to work along the same principles for damping....but not quite as non-resonant as the library discs (as done with the very scientific method of plinking my nail against it )

Wonder what that laminating machine at the library costs and the cost of material to do it?  That way the damping is permanently adhered for best effect (and less issue with players sucking up their mats into their drive mechanism - which the Herbie's does in my Pioneer DVD-656 player).  Otherwise, it works well.

John

[Adamay]

I've used the grungebuster for years and like it quite a bit: less grunge, sweeter highs, a bit tighter bass.  I've been curious about the Millenium mat -- Batmanslc2, could you clarify how the Millenium improved on the Herbie's mat?  Thanks.

[TheChairGuy]

Well, whaddya' know...thru the power of the internet I found this:

http://www.vernonlibrarysupplies.com/cgi-bin/vernlib.cgi/6690CD.html

Seems my local library may not even be going thru the time intensive step of lamination...these are permanent stick-ons with an aggressive backing

And look - it's 4 mil thick vinyl.  Maybe my CD's will sound like my much more loved vinyl now ?

It's $29 for the Vernon labels and $164 for Herbie's per 100 ct.  I think I'll take the plunge with the Vernon, mass-produced stuff soon.

John

[batmanslc2]

adamay,  with the millenium mat I noticed wider deeper soundstage and the music was "released" from the speakers better.  It seemed more natural, great tone and presense.  this was noticably improved and a couple of friends & family have commented without being prompted! That is always telling to me.  This mat and diffraction be gone are two tweaks I would not do without!

[Kenobi]

Hello,

I have been thinking about getting a similar thickness carbon fiber material from Protechcomposite: http://www.protechcomposite.com/servlet/the-Carbon-Fiber-Sheet-2x2-Twill-%28No-Adhesive%29/Categories
for something like $19bucks instead of $99 for the Millenium Mat.  Cut it up to the size of CD and we're set.  Curious if anyone has tried it.

I just ordered a sheet to satisfy the inquiring mind in me.

thanks,

Kenobi

[TheChairGuy]

Kenobi,

What do you cut carbon fibre with...scissors, a kitchen sheer, something else ?

Isn't it a little, ummm, fibrous and tough?  Or am I think perhaps about kevlar where bullet proof vests are made from? 

John

[2gumby2]

Hello,

I have been thinking about getting a similar thickness carbon fiber material from Protechcomposites: http://www.protechcomposite.com/servlet/the-Carbon-Fiber-Sheet-2x2-Twill-%28No-Adhesive%29/Categories
for something like $19bucks instead of $99 for the Millenium Mat.  Cut it up to the size of CD and we're set.  Curious if anyone has tried it.

I just ordered a sheet to satisfy the inquiring mind in me.

thanks,

Kenobi

$120, wow!! I'd be interested in some experiments with the library method mentioned by Chairguy. Hard for me to take a risk on a $120 CD mat for now. How does that carbon fiber CD mat adhere?

[Kenobi]

Hi John,

I got a circle cutter tool from ebay Still waiting for the carbon fiber to arrive before experimenting.

Gumby: you simply put the carbon fiber on top of CD, no adhesive required--assuming you have a top loader or one of those with the slide out tray.  I am currently using a CD Statmat MKII and it has improved CD performance.  Hopefully, the carbon fiber sheet will improve things futher w/o breaking the bank.

Will keep you all posted,

Kenobi 

[DTB300]

It's $29 for the Vernon labels and $164 for Herbie's per 100 ct.  I think I'll take the plunge with the Vernon, mass-produced stuff soon.

True. 

The Black Hole is only 1.99 for a single (plus shipping $5 or so I would imagine).  If you do not like the BH you have one sitting around.  With Vernon, if you do not like them you have 100 sitting around 

[Danberg]

No to be paranoid but,  the fibers from "carbon fiber" are dangerous when inhaled.  From what I heard the same as "asbestos".  May want to do more research into this prior to cutting. 

[Kenobi]

To John (Chairguy) and those interested, I like to present a quick update.  This darn thing (DIY carbon fiber mat above) is the real deal!  Brief observation: music is sparkling, clear, articulate, energetic with great pacing.  A CD I heard that previously felt like the singer was sick and weighted down now sounded like she's lost 20lbs and in much better shape--younger and more vibrant.  I also observed higher resolution, silkier and more delicate highs, better separation and felt like there air is now thinner and purer where previously was like the recording was held in a damp and smoke-filled, room.  Bass is tigher w/ much less overhang.  Overall, it brought my system and more importantly my enjoyment up a big notch that was frankly--unexpected for the cash outlay. 

YMMV,

Kenobi