[DanTheMan]

I just got to hear this today at Yodobashi (large Japanese electronics store) in Akihabara ("Electric Town" in Tokyo):
http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20080215/onkyo-apx-2-hd-audio-computer/
Anyone else got to hear this machine?  I have to say it's the best computer audio I've ever heard by a mile!  Sounds much like the best of analog combined with the best of digital.  They really don't give you enough of the details for you to duplicate it's performance with upgrading your current rig.  It's got a nice soundcard, Vector Linear Shaping Circuitry(?), lots of dampening, and it bipasses Vista's audio portion(?).  Any suggestions for duplicating it's performance in America and/or on a Mac?  Any guesses about what the VLSC is?

Thanks,

Dan

[Bemopti123]

I do not believe this unit will best other computer centric units out there, but what I understand it to be is just a computer, with most likely a digital amplifier built in...the function seems to be has been tailored for audio.  If a company decides to build a music based computer, then perhaps other functions of a computer that create noise will be bypassed.  Perhaps they unit Linux or something less glitchy than Vista?  Who knows?

[DanTheMan]

Oh, this is the one I actually heard.
http://www.2dayblog.com/2008/12/03/onkyo-hdc-1l-nettop-audio-pc/?lang=en

I somehow put the wrong one on the last post.  I don't believe that one has been released yet.  This is computer audio like I've never heard.  I wouldn't write this if it weren't.  The speakers and amp I heard are different than the ones in the article(if you could call it that).  Hreat stuff that I want to duplicate, but I don't want to buy a Japanese computer with Vista.  It just seems like a nightmare.

[richidoo]

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news_details.php?id=17116



I would guess that VLSC is upsampling. Says it comes with XP. They took out the amp section probably so it could compete against Logitech, Sonos, etc. Looks pretty cool! 

[wilsynet]

What other computer audio have you heard? Can you describe previous computer audio setups that you've auditioned?  It would be good to have a basis of comparison ...

[ecramer]

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news_details.php?id=17116



I would guess that VLSC is upsampling. Says it comes with XP. They took out the amp section probably so it could compete against Logitech, Sonos, etc. Looks pretty cool! 

The only problem i see is the 160gig HD Ineed more space. I have more mp3 on my computer than that let alone flac

[mcgsxr]

With 6 USB ports I am pretty sure you could attach enough outboard HD's for FLAC use.

Too bad they ditched the onboard amp, one of these with several channels of built in Tripath would have been interesting.

I am sure we will see far more of this PC/Audio in the future - imagine an SB3 with built in Tripath...

[DanTheMan]

I really haven't heard ANY other computers set up for audio.  I have heard my own through nice headphones (Shure SE110, Grado SR60) and lossless(WAV, ALAC, and whatever the other one is that comes on MACs) formats--I own a MacBook and PCs(Sony Vaio, Toshiba, and Dell)--and they're not in the same league.  The Mac sounds the best of these.  The Sony supposedly has a nice soundcard, but it sounds pathetic next to this.    Even my SACD doesn't sound nearly as good through my home rig  aa which is not bad at all--at least as nice as the speaker amp combo they were using.  I should have said it is the most natural digital reproduction I've ever heard, not just computer sound.  I'd love to hear it side by side with my vinyl rig.  With audio this good, I may drop analog all together other than what I can't find in digital.  Even then I'd copy it to digital as to keep the original in good shape. The most expensive CD players I've heard are in the $5,000 range, but this was sounding better to my ear.  I was in a noisy store and I couldn't do side-by-side with the same music through the same amp and speakers so it would be unfair to state that this was definitely better.  The new version of this, out in Feb, will have a 500gig HD for a bit more storage and Vista I believe.

[wilsynet]

I thought it would be interesting to list out some other computer oriented configurations out there besides the Onkyo.  Most DACs and amplifiers that come built into computers are pretty awful, so a lot of the computer oriented audio gear out there replaces the DAC + amp for headphones, and the DAC alone for home 2-channel systems.

For headphone listeners who want a portable solution for their laptop (or desktop) that is both a USB DAC and a headphone amp:

Nuforce Icon Mobile, $99, http://www.nuforce-icon.com/Product-Icon-Mobile.htm
Headamp Pico, $499, http://www.headamp.com/
Ray Samuels Predator, $475, http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/products/predator
iBasso D3, $219, http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=35

I think you'll find that all 4 of these are considerably, considerably better than the built-in headphone output of your laptop or desktop computer.  The portable headphone amps listed here aren't best at driving difficult headphone loads like the Sennheiser HD650, but the last three will certainly do the job for the easier to drive most other Sennheisers, any Grado, and most Beyer Dynamic and Audio-Technica headphones too.  I haven't heard the Nuforce Icon as it's fairly new on the scene, but it is quite, quite affordable.

If you're hooking up your computer to your home stereo system and you've got a decent 2-channel setup, then here are some USB DACs to look at:

MHDT Labs Paradisea 3, $599, http://www.geocities.com/mhdtlab/P3.htm
AudioSector USB DAC, $450 assembled, http://www.audiosector.com/
Benchmark DAC 1 USB, $1295, http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/system1/digital-analog-converter/dac1-usb
Wavelength Brick v2, $1750, http://www.usbdacs.com/Products/Products.html
Red Wine Audio Isabellina, $2500, http://www.redwineaudio.com/Isabellina.html
Wavelength Cosecant v3, $3500, http://www.usbdacs.com/Products/Products.html

Looks like the core of the Onkyo audiophile PC is really the sound card, the Onkyo SE90PCI.  I've never really heard of anything particularly good about PCI sound cards, and it would surprise me that given how important the power supply is to good sounding audio, that the power supply of what is known to be a noisy PC environment would turn out to be a good thing.

But I have an open mind and if given the opportunity, I'd love to match up my Red Wine Isabella against the Onkyo.  Considering how Onkyo is focused on HT and big box stores, it would surprise me if the Onkyo PC came out on top.

Wilson

[t-head]

New guy on the block for USB DAC and Headphone Amp...lots of buzz at headfi.org

http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/DAC-Compass.htm   DAC pass thru for 2channel setups

$258 + $50 airshipped

my Pico is nice...

t

[DanTheMan]

Wilson, I'd be surprised if the Onkyo came out on top as well.  For the money and convenience, it certainly shouldn't.  It would be quite a pisser for many if it did!     The thing I like about it is the direction--an all inclusive digital music server that doesn't take a lot of time to set up with virtually no learning curve and sounds great.  I wish there were more examples on the market.  For me, and I'm sure many others, if there were a simple way to get into good sounding computer audio I'd have done it a while back.  It's inspired me to acquire more knowledge of how these devices work and I've come a long way in just a few days.  The fact that it doesn't seem too hard (but much harder than it should and could be) to likely get better performance than this with digital media is exciting.  I can't wait until the prices of solid state HDs come down further.  I learned the hard way that a back up drive is necessity with normal hard drives.  Maybe a SS drive could keep from introducing timing errors (anyone know much about this?) and should definitely be more reliable.

There's a good thread here to get others started on this journey of computer audio. 

Thanks again gentleman!

Dan

[Jon L]

"Nettop now comes with an Intel Atom 230 CPU (1.6GHz), an Intel 945GC Express Chipset, 1GB of memory, 160GB of HDD, a DVD SuperMulti Drive, 6 USB 2.0 ports, and Windows XP Home."

The important info that's missing is what is used in D-to-A conversion and what is in the analogue output stage (likely op-amps).  A back-view showing all the I/O ports would be nice, i.e. is there a spdif/optical digital output?