A VMPS Newbie Wanna BE

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seadogs1

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A VMPS Newbie Wanna BE
« on: 27 Nov 2003, 02:31 pm »
I'm sorry to say I have never heard any of the VMPS products therefore, I have a few questions. Are there any dealers in Minnesota or western Wisconsin? If not are there any members from the above places? How big of a sweetspot is there for the RM/X and the RM-40; in tech talk what is the horizontal dipersion and the vertical dispersion? If you stand up while listening do you lose all the right sound like you do with the Innersound Electrostatics? Do you need to keep your head in a vice while listening to capture the perfect sound? Thanks!

Marbles

Re: A VMPS Newbie Wanna BE
« Reply #1 on: 27 Nov 2003, 02:44 pm »
Quote from: seadogs1
I'm sorry to say I have never heard any of the VMPS products therefore, I have a few questions. Are there any dealers in Minnesota or western Wisconsin? If not are there any members from the above places? How big of a sweetspot is there for the RM/X and the RM-40; in tech talk what is the horizontal dipersion and the vertical dispersion? If you stand up while listening do you lose all the right sound like you do with the Innersound Electrostatics? Do you need to keep your head in a vice while listening to capture the perfect sound? Thanks!


Can't answer the first few questions, but starting with the Sweetspot of the RM40's...I sit back about 12' from the speakers and the sweetspot is about 2.5 people wide on the sofa.  The speakers are about 9' apart.

If I stand up, I DO lose some of the highs, and I'm only 5'7".  No need to buy a vice :wink:  to keep your head in the sweetspot.

Sedona Sky Sound

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A VMPS Newbie Wanna BE
« Reply #2 on: 27 Nov 2003, 06:23 pm »
As with any good speaker, the actual "optimal spot" is only directly in the middle of the speakers. Outside of that spot, the music remains well blended for almost the entire width of my couch (roughly the 2.5 people wide area that Marbles mentions). The RM/Xs seem to have a slightly wider dispersion pattern but this may just be because of different speaker placement.

With the RM40, you will loose a little of the sound if you move as little as 6 inches vertically. The sound gradually trails off as you continue to stand up. The RM/X has a much different characteristic. It is possible to move the tweeter pod so that you can stand up with almost no loss in sound. However, this position does not give the optimal results in the seated position. With the tweeter pod in the optimal position, the sound does not change until about 52 inches. However, move up just an inch more and it is like someone has turned off the subwoofer (no clue why it has this effect).      

I think there is a dealer in Michigan or Wisconsin that can demo the RM40s. For the RM/X, it is myself (in Texas), Brian (California), or Roop (NYC).

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

John Casler

A VMPS Newbie Wanna BE
« Reply #3 on: 28 Nov 2003, 03:33 am »
Quote
How big of a sweetspot is there for the RM/X and the RM-40; in tech talk what is the horizontal dipersion and the vertical dispersion? If you stand up while listening do you lose all the right sound like you do with the Innersound Electrostatics? Do you need to keep your head in a vice while listening to capture the perfect sound? Thanks!


Hi Seaddogs,

One of my favorite questions :lol:  

Occasionally you'll hear some one mention that the VMPS ribbons have a "limited" sweet spot.

And sometimes it is mentioned as a negative!!! :nono:

In the world of "high perfromance" sound gear (or anything for that matter) as you approach the higher levels of performance some sacrifices are made to acheive that level.

In the world of performance autos, there are "NO" Formula One rides that seat four comfortably.  And there are no "Sports Coupes" (that do seat four)  that can run a course anywhere near the F1 car.

VMPS is the F1 8)

So when we talk about sweet spot just what do we mean?

When we set up our listening postition between two speakers our goal is to get an "equal" signal from each speaker, so that our brains assemble those two signals into a "virtual soundstage" in our "mind's eye".

Your ears and brain are "very" good at this.  They are also very good at letting you know when you are getting an "unbalanced" signal in one ear or the other.  As soon as the brain determines that the signal is "unbalanced" the Virtual Soundstage collapses to the dominant signal and boom you are out of the sweet spot.

What does this mean when we compare VMPS neopanel and ribbons to other more "dispersive" speakers?

One of the traits of VMPS is the "detail" and resolution of layers of sound.

That very quality is a function of a limited dispersion driver with a more "focused" sonic signal.

Much like one of these maglite flashlights.  You can focus them in a very tight precise circle or you can "fuzz them out" into a highly dispersed and larger pattern.

The more focused beam is smaller, clearer, brighter, and has more defined edges and clarity.  The more dispersed beam is not as bright, fuzzy, and not clear at all, but it "is" bigger.

Edit:  I just thought of another way to "illustrate" how this works with the flashlight example.

I you were in a dark room and had two of these flashlights sitting on your speakers and focused the beam to "just cover" your ears you would notice that if you moved left or right, or up and down, your ears would "leave" the bright beam and go into darkness or at least very reduced light.

Out of the sweet spot.

If you then refocused the beam to expand out to cover the area of a foot or two on each side of your ears, you would notice that you could move to these areas and still have a very similar amount of light on those ears.

BUT.... you would also notice that even in the sweet spot, the light would not be as clear and bright and detailed as it was when you spread it out.

That's kinda how it works. :)

In the real world of Audiophile enjoyment, most of our listening is done sitting in the sweet spot.  Anything less than that postition, even with highly dispersive speakers will not yield the "best" result.

So how does "greater dispersion" yeild a larger sweet spot?

Well just like the fuzzy flashlight beam, the images are slightly less precise.  As I explained above this allows a bit more lattitude of movement left or right or up and down before the image collapses, because the magnitude of difference is not as great than a more detailed sonic signal.

Now to me, I would rather have a more detailed and focused "serious listening postition" than one where I could sit to one side of my sofa on occasion.

But what other advantages are there to either "greater" or "lesser" dispersion patterns?

The greater dispersion your speakers have laterally, the more side reflections you will have if you have side walls.

The greater dispersion you have vertically, the more ceiling and floor reflections you'll have.

Each of these cause sonic problems, if our goal is to bring the original event to the listening position.

Reduced dispersion reduces these problems slightly.

So, in selecting a speaker you have to decide, do I want the F1?  or do I want the Sport Coupe or SUV?

Both will give great satisfaction but neither will do "all" the things the other will. :|

And to come full circle, and answer your question, "YES" by their very nature the ribbons are more precise and less dispersive, which "does" limit the "sweet spot", but in my preferences and listening criteria, that is exacctly what I want. :mrgreen:

Others may want to have the same perfromance over a "broader" listening area, that they have in the "sweet seat".

And I should mention, I don't have my head in a vice :nono: , (although some might debate that point :lol:  :lol: )  and I certainly can "bop" around to the music as much as I want, but I won't be sitting in any place for serious listening except "center cushion" :D  grooving on the detail of the VMPS ribbons.

Rocket

ribbon tweeters
« Reply #4 on: 28 Nov 2003, 11:33 am »
hi,

i don't have a pair of vmps speakers, although i'd like to try a pair.

i do however have a hybrid pair of speakers which use a ribbon tweeter and agree with john's comments.

from my observations a ribbon tweeter is much more natural and revealing than a dome tweeter setup.

regards

rocket

warnerwh

A VMPS Newbie Wanna BE
« Reply #5 on: 29 Nov 2003, 12:03 am »
Would someone explain to me why so many people care about the sound while standing up?  I guess it must be alot of parties that I wasn't invited to.

Rocket

vmps speakers
« Reply #6 on: 29 Nov 2003, 12:43 am »
Hi Warner,

I agree with what you are saying.

I've read some crazy posts about people walking around the room listening to their music and expecting to still be in the sweet spot  :? .

I think they are being a little unrealistic.  Dome tweeters do have a slightly larger sweet spot but not that much.

regards

rocket

rkapadia@ROOP

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A VMPS Newbie Wanna BE
« Reply #7 on: 1 Dec 2003, 07:37 am »
Hello all,

I've owned a pair of Gallo References with their quzi-piezo CDT tweeter - the tweeter offered excellent horizontal and vertical dispersion, and sounded quite good in almost any corner of the previous listening room.

However, when seated for "critcal listening", or "maximum enjoyment" (depending on if your perspective ;) ), the Gallo's really couldn't compare with a pair of properly setup RM-40's.

You have to prioritize what's important for your listening needs.  VMPS speakers aren't for everybody, nor are Gallo's (or any other manufacturer).  But with regards to maximum potential for music quality, you'll be hard pressed to find anything quite like the VMPS.

Kind Regards,

seadogs1

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Sweet spot
« Reply #8 on: 1 Dec 2003, 01:01 pm »
First, much thanks to all that replied and second, I was looking for a sweet spot 2.5 people wide would be great when seated. I know optimum and how great speakers can sound when you are seated in the right spot. I just did not want an Innersound type sound if you moved your head an inch you lost the sweet spot. Also I do throw a lot of parties and just wanted to know if the sound was adequate for parties not ideal.

Finally, one last question, do the VMPS speakers only sound great if turned up really loud? Thanks again.

Sedona Sky Sound

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A VMPS Newbie Wanna BE
« Reply #9 on: 1 Dec 2003, 06:52 pm »
Hello Seadogs1,
All of the VMPS speakers provide significant detail even at low volumes. In my demo room, I have had a customer that did an entire 2-hour demo of the RM40 at less than 85dB. I have had two other customers that were demoing at 110dB (I had to leave the room it was so loud). One of the strong suites of the speakers is that you can turn them up with no strain but you do not have too in order to get great sound.  

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

Q

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sweetspot/moving
« Reply #10 on: 2 Dec 2003, 12:44 pm »
Too add to the above posts, I would add that the RM40 I believe sounds better than many speakers when moving around the room from a smooth response standpoint.  NO, it does not pertain to frequencies above the midpanels.  BUT my guess is that due to the wide freq range of the midpanels, and their limited dispersion, I find that unlike other speakers, there are no hot uppermidrange spots or what sounds like "beaming" with these.

I'm getting closer guys!!!
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Q