Going to spend money soon! Throw in your two cents- please vote

geowak · « **on:** 14 Dec 2008, 10:34 pm »

Here is a recap of my considerations-

Budget is $1000 to $2000. Here is some info about what I am interested in-

1 Enough power for a medium size room- with no audible amp strain
2 LOW NOISE unit
3 Good tonal balance and a can produce low, mid and high frequencies without bloom, harshness and with smooth midrange.
4 Neutral in presentation of the music (not warm or otherwise adding it’s own sonic signature)
5 Wide soundstage
6 Dynamics, microdynamics and quick transient response
7 Great detail
8 Musical

I will be using a Benchmark DAC with an optical switch between a Rega Apollo as a transport or
Itunes library played through a Slimdevices Squeezebox. Speakers will be 4ohm floorstanders or 6ohm bookshelf of average sensitivity.

Thanks to all who gave advice and input

ted_b · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Dec 2008, 10:43 pm »

My $.02 is that you've gotta hear these for yourself. Your ears, room and preferences are likely wayyyyyyy different than mine. Find a dealer or used seller that will allow a 30 day. The magic is usually in the synergy (i.e how well an amp sees and handles the impedances, how well the yin of the speakers matches the yang of the source/pre/amp side). On paper those features/criteria are all noble; who wouldn't like and want musical, neutral, dynamic, detailed and yet well-balanced.

geowak · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Dec 2008, 10:53 pm »

TED

Yes you are correct! I know this.

I have listened to a few of these already. But I cannot listen to all of them because many of the Audio stores in my area have closed down. If I get alot of feedback on one or more units, I will indeed drive some distance to listen to the unit.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Dec 2008, 12:14 am »

geowak,If you are going to look at Class D amps you should put the Cherry amps on your list ; http://www.DigitalAmp.com/ They are made with non-switching power supplies which may contribute to a better sound and their filter pole on the output stage is further away from the audio band which should give you a better sounding top end. There is my two cents for what it's worth.
Scotty

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Dec 2008, 01:08 am »

Don't deviate from Ted's advice. Limit your possibilities to only the ones you can hear in your home. Why risk a crapshot?

NOTE: IMO it shouldn't take anywhere near 30 days to figure out "if it is" or "is it ain't". And you're not going to find the ultimate amp. Nobody does. All you need is to find is one that stands out.

timind · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Dec 2008, 01:28 am »

Over the last few years I was on a similar quest for the right integrated amp. My strategy was the buy and try method. If it didn't work I sold it, usually for very little loss if any. The first two on your list were bought and tried ut didn't stay. In fact the PS Audio C-100 I had was the version with full Cullen mods.
The amp that stayed is the Bel Canto eVo2i. To my ears it meets all the criteria you mention. In addition to sound quality, a major plus with the eVo is it's functionality. Good luck with the search.

geowak · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Dec 2008, 04:03 pm »

timind

Not a bad idea. I did this by total frusratation before, but not by design. This is a good idea.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Dec 2008, 04:11 pm »

It's easy to buy, but selling, even at bargain basement prices, is a lot tougher these days. Not so sure if that's a good idea given current economic conditions.

saisunil · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Dec 2008, 04:17 pm »

Can you please tell us what speakers (brand and model) do you have. What is your current system set up.
The speakers will largely decide the kind of amp it would need to help you get the results you are looking for...

This is a good time to buy demo / close-outs or used.

Good Luck

miklorsmith · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Dec 2008, 04:22 pm »

Wind is spot-on. The used market is flooded with great gear at ridiculous prices right now, and the stuff still isn't selling. In a normal market that strategy is good but I wouldn't try it now.

geowak · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Dec 2008, 04:24 pm »

I have recently taken possesion of a pair of Wilson Audio Duettes (demo). But will also use Monitor Audio BR2's and Snell E-5 floorstanders.

geowak · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Dec 2008, 08:44 pm »

Looks like I might be test driving a Primaluna Prologue one. Can anyone tell me what the SOUND difference is between tubes and ss? Which one would tend to be quiet in the quiet passages?

Also, what if I go up a notch to the Prologue Two, would it be a big difference?

CSI · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Dec 2008, 11:24 pm »

I owned a Prologue One for a year and loved it. It is the epitome of great tube sound - warm, lush, detailed and with a hard to describe "bloom" to the midrange that is nearly magic. So why did I sell it? In time, all tube units (to my ears at least) show their limitations which are, in general, a lack of ultimate bass control and just too much coloration (albeit very pleasing coloration). I keep gravitating to Class D amps. I own CIA products as well as some low powered Tripath stuff in secondary systems. I've had CIA D.100's and D.200's in my system and either of them offers the best combo of tube-like sweetness and solid state control I've heard so far.

My new Cherry amp will arrive this week and I will report on it on AC as soon as I have some miles on it.

BTW, all tubes are inherently noisier than SS but the PL stuff is as quiet (and reliable) as they come. You will probably have to put your ear right up to the tweeter with the volume up a bit to hear much noise from the PL and that is good enough for most people. If you just plug it in and never look back you will be happy with it forever.

geowak · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Dec 2008, 12:36 am »

Some last minute recommendations came in. Had to add them!

Zero · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Dec 2008, 01:12 am »

You know, that list is scary. The truth is that I have either owned, or have had extensive experience with darn near every component on the list.

That's just not right, especially at my age.

Every item listed this far is a solid, reputable piece, and will stand well on its own merit given the proper situation. However, the description of 4 ohm or 6 ohm speakers really doesn't tell us a thing. Unless my blind self has missed the print that identifies an actual make/model - that'll go along way towards guiding you in the proper direction.

For what its worth, out of the group, I'd go ahead with the *un-mentioned* $980 Vista Audio i34. No, it's not very well known around these parts - but it is a musical champ and has all the qualities you're looking for. (extremely quiet, balanced, chalk full of tone, easy to maintain (self biasing), intensely musical, not bloated) Hell, I even preferred its little brother (the i84) to the other gear listed above, including the Prima Luna ProLogue 1 and 2 integrated amps. The only reason I cannot recommend the i84 is due to its limited power / dynamic prowess. Considering that Boris gives you a VERY generous trial period with the gear, there's almost no reason why not to try it. If you end up not caring for it, all you'll be out is shipping.

For what its worth, I've run the little i84 on the: ACI Sapphire XL, Totem Acoustic Forest, Totem Acoustic Sttaf, Dali Mentor 5, Mark and Daniel Topaz, Polk Audio LSi-15, Ascend Acoustics Sierra 1, Odyssey Audio Epiphany II's - with zero problems. Granted of course, this is in a small room. For a medium sized room, the i34 would be a must.

geowak · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Dec 2008, 01:47 am »

Zero

Thats quite a statement. You've owned alot of nice gear!!! Cool. Thanks for the tip on the Vista Audio. I will check it out. Also, I have finished getting Wilson Duettes that I have been borrowing for about er uh
9 months now. They are sweet, the best speakers I have owned.

bacobits1 · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Dec 2008, 01:48 am »

I'll recommend the Vista i34 too. It's excellent.
I was also running a Benchmark DAC1 until recently.

Den

ted_b · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Dec 2008, 01:55 am »

I've heard great things about the i34 also. Someone I was chatting with at RMAF mentioned it as his "find of 2008". Plus Boris is an AC'er, and offers a generous return policy that supports my critical issue: hearing them in your own room, with your own ears.

geowak · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Dec 2008, 07:36 pm »

SUBTRACTED some non-vote getters and ADDED some recommendations. Give me your vote!
Heavy lean now towards the Jolida or McCormack units.

Emil · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Dec 2008, 07:53 pm »

Quote from: geowak on 14 Dec 2008, 10:34 pm

Here is a recap of my considerations-

Budget is $1000 to $2000. Here is some info about what I am interested in-

1 Enough power for a medium size room- with no audible amp strain
2 LOW NOISE unit
3 Good tonal balance and a can produce low, mid and high frequencies without bloom, harshness and with smooth midrange.
4 Neutral in presentation of the music (not warm or otherwise adding it’s own sonic signature)
5 Wide soundstage
6 Dynamics, microdynamics and quick transient response
7 Great detail
8 Musical

I will be using a Benchmark DAC with an optical switch between a Rega Apollo as a transport or
Itunes library played through a Slimdevices Squeezebox. Speakers will be 4ohm floorstanders or 6ohm bookshelf of average sensitivity.

Thanks to all who gave advice and input

Being a former Nait 5i owner, you will NOT get get #2 or #4. You will get heaps of #6 and #8.

If I may suggest considering some have mentioned the need to audition at home the Valve Audio Predator 200 watt hybrid integrated avilable for $2k.
Its a B stock with a full 30 day return policy. Read the review on ToneAudio.
Tube roll to your hearts content and you'll have enough power for any speaker now or in the future.

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/72696

'A bird in the hand is worth two on Audiogon'

Poll

Fellow circle members have helped me. Now please cast vote from this list.

Going to spend money soon! Throw in your two cents- please vote