Looking for modestly priced CDP; Cambridge 640C, Tubedac or?

elnero · « **on:** 25 Nov 2003, 06:13 pm »

Hi all, I've been lurking for the past little while doing some reading and research. I've been involved in audio for about 16 years and a member over at Head-Fi for about 1 1/2. Since I discovered good headphones they have become my primary source for serious listening.

My wife and I are moving next month and I'm working on setting up a dedicated headphone listening system in the computer room. Right now I have Audio Technica AT-W100 headphones and a Singlepower PPX3 tube headphone amp on order. What I need is a new CDP that's of decent quality and "musical" but not to expensive.

I'll have to admit that my exposure to decent quality CD players has been limited in the last few years. I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada and as such we don't really have any high end audio dealers. I did manage to get to a shop in Halifax a few weeks ago where I got to hear the new Cambridge Audio Azur 540C and 640C. I'll have to admit I was mightly impressed with both but especially the 640C. IMO, It easily bettered an older Arcam CD72 they had there. It just had this sense of ease that didn't give up any of the detail. It was bigger, smoother and more quiet sounding. After the listening session I had my mind made up on the 640C at about half the price of the Arcam it seems like a bargain to me.

I've had a few discussions with a fellow Head-Fier on the benefits of non-oversampling, filterless DAC's but, until I read a review over at Head-Fi that talked about the TubeDac I had been under the impression that only Audio Note and 47 Labs were building players or DAC's with this philosophy in mind. Needless to say I've been intrigued. What gets me though is a lot of the traits ascribed to filterless, non-oversampling DAC's would be how I would describe some of the traits of the 640C.

I've read the TubeDac can tend towards richness in vocals, especially female vocals. This is appealing but at the same time my headphones already have a rather rich midrange and adding a tube headphone amp will probably only increase this by a degree so my worry with the TubeDac would too much of a good thing. I've considered the dAck! as well but it's at the upper end of my budget ($500-550 US) and I would still need a transport of some sort. I'll admit that I'm still leaning heavily towards the Cambridge but I'm still curious about filterless, non-oversampling designs. I'm also open to suggestions.

So I guess my biggest question is has anyone who has a TubeDac or dAck! heard the Cambridge 640C and if so how did they compare? If I were to go the TubeDac route I would stick with the regular version and upgrade the power supply at a later date. Is the TubeDac still acceptable without the upgraded ps? Going this route would leave approximately $150-200 in my budget for a transport, any suggestions? I'm also open to any other suggestions people might have.

Sorry for rambling and thanks for your time.

PS

byteme · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Nov 2003, 10:02 pm »

Welcome to the circle!

I've not heard the 640 so I can't comment on that. however, I love the tubedac. It was great before the power supply so you'd be fine if you did't get that right away. Personally I haven't noticed that it's more pronounced in any particular area - and the only way I think you'll be able to tell if it is for you is to take a listen. Scott has a return policy so it's pretty low risk. For $200 or so you should be able to find a used Sony DVP S7000 or S7700 on ebay or audiogon. There are 4-5 people here using this setup who really like it - I know of more who use the Sony as a transport. There's also been a fair amount of talk about other low priced DVD players that work great as transports. Plus, if you're into messing with things yourself the Sony is pretty tweakable!

Good luck!

sjd · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Nov 2003, 09:47 pm »

Don't forget you'll need a digital cable with the dac, so factor that in. A cheap transport option is the NEC multispin 602x (I believe the model # is) external CDROM drive. I have one of these as well as the DVP-S7000 Haven't done a shootout, and the one system is at work, so don't intend to... But I can verify the Sony is sweet. Best advice is to wait and buy used to get the real deal. We audiophiles are all pretty much OCD, so there is always someone upgrading and moving yesterday's wunderkind. Also, on paper the CEC $500 unit at Audio Advisor is enticing, but you could likely do better for the money with some patience and going used.

elnero · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Nov 2003, 08:54 pm »

Hey guys thanks for the responses. I didn't realize Scott had a return policy but I don't think that's an option because I'm outside the U.S. and customs charges are a real pain to deal with.

A couple of things. I'm not a big fan of going used for things like CDP's or transports unless they are incredibly cheap like the NEC drives. It's a bit illogical I know but I've always felt there was too many moving parts that are prone to failure over time for it to be a feasible option. The NEC is an option though but I'm thinking since this will be set up in the computer room anyway something like an M-Audio Revolution might be an option as well. It would definately give a greater flexibility. I would probably rip a bunch of albums to Monkey's Audio or Flac and use Foobar for playback.

I do keep forgetting to factor in the cost of the cable. As it is now the cost of an M-Audio Revo, TubeDac and basic digital cable would be right around or a bit more than the Cambridge. I guess I'm still strongly leaning towards the Cambridge player because I've had a chance to audition it and was quite pleased with what I heard. If there was a big difference in sound quality I might be tempted to go the TubeDac route so I guess a comparison of the Cambridge and TubeDac would be my biggest question at this point.

elnero · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 08:42 pm »

Ok, I'm going to revive this thread as I'm still researching but getting closer to the purchase of a new source. My original question still stands. Is there any of you TubeDac owners out there that have heard the Cambridge player yet?

Any other suggestions for a cheap single disc transport solution?

rosconey · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 08:48 pm »

run as fast as you can to best buy and get the toshiba 3950 (60$)- after a couple days you will forget about a high dollar cdp

guys at aa say it also is a killer transport-
give it a try -you have 30 days to return it-

look at the digital section at aa (audio asylum)

elnero · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 08:58 pm »

Hehe, I'm in PEI, Canada and there's no Best Buys anywhere near here. I'm not sure where one would find one of these Toshiba's here.

JLM · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 09:09 pm »

Doesn't matter where you live. Amazon.com also has it and with a $10 USD rebate. It's a no brainer. Add a separate DAC/digital cable later if you want.

rosconey · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 10:06 pm »

check the aa thread a cannuk found them up there some place-lol

elnero · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 10:38 pm »

aa thread? Do you have a link?

rosconey · « **Reply #10 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 10:43 pm »

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/81342.html

also the new models -3860,3960 -dont have the same bur brown chip-

find a 3950

earlmarc · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 11:01 pm »

The Pioneer DV-563A has probably the best transport on the market and could be had for $150. Mate it with the Tube DAC and Scott's digital cable for about $550. I have never heard that Cambridge player, but have heard Cambride players. My memory of the Cambridge player was clinical and digital sounding. I would be surprised if the Cambridge player you mention is better than the Tube DAC with a decent transport and cable. The decision is yours, I would at least compare them for your own satisfaction.

elnero · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 11:03 pm »

Thanks for the link, I'll have to do a bit of research on that player and see if it would make a decent transport.

In the meantime I would still like to hear from anyone who owns or has heard the TubeDac that has also heard the Cambridge.

rosconey · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 11:12 pm »

563 is a dog-woof woof
lol

it more than likely has a better drive unit than the 3950-so it might last longer-
but it cant hold a candle to it in 2 channel-i had the 563 for 2 weeks and it was migrane maker

lacking any musical ability

3950 out of the box it eats the dog 563-

ps can you tell i hated the 563

elnero · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 11:30 pm »

Quote from: earlmarc

The Pioneer DV-563A has probably the best transport on the market and could be had for $150. Mate it with the Tube DAC and Scott's digital cable for about $550. I have never heard that Cambridge player, but have heard Cambride players. My memory of the Cambridge player was clinical and digital sounding. I would be surprised if the Cambridge player you mention is better than the Tube DAC with a decent transport and cable. The decision is yours, I would at least compare them for your own satisfaction.

I can get the Pioneer here at Future Shop for about $260 CND (Approx. $200 US). Is the transport in it really that good?

I don't think you can really compare the new Cambridge players to the old, they are a complete redesign and the Wolfson DAC it uses seem to be gaining a reputation for smoothness. I would love to be able to try both but the Cambridge I have to buy out of province as there is no high end dealers here so an audition is pretty much out of the question with it and auditioning things from outside the country can be a real pain because of all the duties, taxes and brokerage fees to get things across the border so I really want to try and be fairly sure of what I'm going to go with before I buy.

You mention Scott has a digital cable but I don't see anything listed on his site, can you give me a bit more info on it?

Now where am I at moneywise:

I can get the Cambridge for $640 CND delivered to my door while the TubeDac would run approx. $550 CND + whatever taxes I get hit with, another $305 for the 563 with taxes and probably at least $65 for a digital cable. That's about $950 - 1000 (depending on those border fees). Hmmm, that's pretty much a whole different league than the Cambridge and opens up some other possibilities. In reality though I'm not sure if I can spend quite that much so I guess the Cambridge is still the front runner for now.

earlmarc · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 11:30 pm »

No shit! I never said the Toshisba was bad. As a transport the Pioneer is the superior player. Mainly because with a simple power supply upgrade, its one hell of a transport. The Pioneer player is a preferred player with many professional modders and OEM manufacturers for mainly its transport and upgradibility.

BikeWNC · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 11:59 pm »

I have the Toshiba 3950 on the way from BB. In a couple of weeks I will post as to how it compares to my Pioneer DV440 with Modwright II mods as a transport to my Bel Canto Dac2, FWIW. I just thought for $60 what the hell, I could always use another CDP/DVD player.

I did own a Cambridge 500SE which I replaced with the Pioneer/BC combo. I did not think the 500SE was clinical in any way. In fact, I thought it was on the warm side with good bass that was just a bit loose. I have no idea how the new model would compare.

Andy

orthobiz · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Mar 2004, 04:14 am »

I ordered a Toshiba from Amazon just now.
69 bucks
Free shipping
Printed the 20 dollar refund coupon.
Hope Rosconey's right...

Maybe get a Scott Nixon Tube DAC later on!
Now that's a cheap tube player!

biz

rosconey · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Mar 2004, 11:14 am »

earlmarc -calm down

well the power supply on the 3950 can be upgraded easily-the lay out inside is clean and simple

my point was out of the box the toshiba was far better than the 563-

i'm not the only one who thinks its a sweet unit-i've recieved a few emails thanking me-that makes me feel so good-
for 60 smackers its a no brainer to give it a listen-or aleast take a look at the reviews at aa and see what other units its replaceing-

earlmarc · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Mar 2004, 05:24 pm »

I will have to concede since I havn't compared the two players. I have heard the Pioneer DV-563A. And for the money, there is no Universal player available at its price. The Pioneer player has been reviewed by every major magazine with rave reviews. Product of the Year 2003 by What's HiFi, Great Buy! by Good Sound, highly praised by Home Theater Magazine and Sound & Vision. Excellent reviews on Audio Review, AVS Forum, and Head HiFi. This player uses top tier DSD 1791 Burr Brown DACs and offers what is considered by the industry the best transport available. The player is a preferred transport for modding by Underwood HiFi, Modwright, and APL Audio. I am not knocking the Toshiba player, and for the money it seems a steal. My opinion based on research and experience with the Pioneer player is that it is great player for the money and would likely make a better transport.