[htradtk]

Greetings VSA owners and fans,

I am an audiophile from Lithicum, Md. Let me give you a little background on how I got to know VSA. About a year ago, I was shopping for a plasma TV and I went to Stansbury AV in Millersville. While I was there, the salesman introduced me to the Von Schweikert VR5SE which
he had on display. I was hooked instantly!! The thing that amazed me was the soundstage, it just blew me away, so open and transparent. So, after purchasing a Pioneer Elite Kuro 60" plasma in 2007, I said, give me a year and we will talk about the VS's. So, this past September I went back and ordered a pair of VR-5 Anniversary speakers! They are the best purchase I ever made. I've had them for four weeks now, I probably have close to 125 hours in them and they are sounding better and better every time. My system consist of a McIntosh MC352 Power Amp, Analysis Plus oval 8 Bi-wire cables, Integra DTR8.8 receiver (used as a pre-amp), Sony SCD9000ESD SACD player, Pioneer Elite BDP-95FD Blu-ray disc player, a Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro-150FD 60" plasma. I listen to music in 2-channel (of course!) and movies in surround. My musical taste are pop, jazz, classical and new age. My listening room is 12 X 20. The Vons are two feet in from the side walls, three feet out from the back wall, toed in about 15 degrees, my listening chair is about 12 feet back from the Vons. On a personal note, I was born with Cerebral Palsy and very fortunate to work full time and own a system of this size.

Happy listening!

[Delacroix]

Hi  Htradtk

Welcome to the Circle --- strike another one for Mcintosh amps with Vons.....there seems to be a large group of such pairings here. Now of course we'll all want pics

Delacroix

[McTwins]

Thats great, so Im not alone with mine McIntosh and Vspeaker .
Nice system. Show us some picture.

[es347]

Hello Htradtk,

Oh the anniversaries indeed!  I haven't heard them and probably shouldn't as I bought my VR4 SR MkIIs just a few weeks ago.  I will be listening to them at the CES in Las Vegas next month.  My friend, you own the finest $25K speaker available so you needn't ever have to concern yourself about upgrading.  My VR4s have over 400 hrs. on them now and they also are sounding better every day.  See my signature for the electronic complement.  I am very pleased with the sound.  Glad to see you posting here.  Make it a habit.

Gavin Hadley

[htradtk]

Gavin,

Thank you for your kind words. I am very happy with my purchase of my "Annie's". They sure need many hours for break-in. Looks like you have a nice system also, you can't go wrong with McIntosh Amps! They are built like a tank, and sound great too. I sure envy you by going to the CES in Vegas. That's like going to audiophile heaven, have fun! As for pictures, do you have pictures of your system? Believe it or not, I do not own a camera due to my disability, they are a little hard for me to handle, but when I find someone to take some pictures of my system, I will get them posted.

Take care and happy listening,
Henry (htradtk)

[es347]

Henry,

Go the the "gallery" and search on es347.  I tried to paste a link here and as usual, failed.  Post your pics as soon as you can.  Looking at the toys is the fun of posting here.

Gavin

[htradtk]

Gavin,

Great pics!! Are those Martin Logan Oddessy's in your theater room? If so, I had those for seven years until I got my VR-5 Annie's. I still use the ML Cinema for my center channel. Thanks for directing me to your pics, will chat soon.

Henry (htradtk)

[es347]

Good morning Henry,

Thanks for the props regarding my systems.  The front speakers are Aerius i's and the center is the Cinema, like yours.  My rears are Speakercraft in-wall and are surprisingly good.  The most important one of course is the center channel and the Cinema does a great job. 

I used to run the Aerius i's bi-wired in my 2CH system with a Velodyne sub with good results but I obviously like what I have now much better.  One of the panels went bad so I just replaced both and plan to rotate them into the HT system and sell the ones there currently.  The new panels have been playing in a loop on the unfinished side of the basement for break-in, driving my wife batty, but I must admit they sound pretty good.

Have a good weekend.

Gavin

ps...don't forget the pictures of your system.

[garyleg]

Hello everyone,

Warning-sorry this is so long but I just have to share my story with some people who may care!

I have been prowling around this forum for a little while and figure it’s time to participate.
 First of all I consider myself very fortunate to have stumbled upon Von Schweikert speakers. I am relatively new to this hobby and have always been fascinated with music and sound. I have always dreamed of putting together a nice system but was unable because the wife wouldn’t stand for the amount of money necessary to spend to put together a halfway decent system. Well I went through a divorce and I then had the opportunity. It’s been quite the challenge on a single father’s budget but I have managed to put together what I think is a pretty awesome system for relatively very little money. Every piece in my system I have bought used to give me the best performance for the money and it is still a work in progress.

I have been through quite a few different speakers by upgrading and selling through Craigslist. Every time I got a new pair of speakers there was always a initial thrill but right away something always didn’t seem quite right and I was wanting to find something else, till one day a pair of blown out VR-4 Gen III popped up for sale on Craigslist for $700. I had never even heard of Von Schweikert speakers till this and decided to do a little research. I was amazed at all the fantastic reviews that I found online and was surprised that I had never even heard of them. I was also pleasantly surprised to find out that the Von Schweikert factory was local to me (I live in San Diego, CA.) so I gave Von Schweikert a call and was able to talk to Albert about what it would cost to repair the speakers. Albert said that $700 was a steal and worst case scenario he could repair them and it would be worth the money. At the time I couldn’t really afford new speakers and was very reluctant to buy speakers that I had never heard before and how much the repairs would cost me, but something kept nagging me that I would be missing out on a good opportunity so I decided to take the plunge and go for it. After I got the speakers home I was happy to find that only the M/T units had been blown and the woofers were fine. I then brought them to Albert for repair. He even let me bring them to his house on the weekend because no one would be at the factory!! I really enjoyed meeting Albert and was amazed at his down to earth nature, and knowledge, with the ability to explain technical info in layman’s terms without trying to dazzle with engineering lingo. Right away I could tell this was a man who has a passion for sound and a gift to go along with it.
Well it turned out that all the drivers were bad and the crossovers had literally caught fire!! Albert couldn’t believe it and said that the speakers would have had to been exposed to unbelievable volumes for probably a half hour to sustain that kind of damage! Albert knew where the speakers had come from. They were a pair of demos from a guy with more money than sense and had decided to open a high end audio shop locally. He had gone out of business and I got them from his employee that he had given them to to pay him off after he went out of business. He told me the guy would crank up speakers with some big Pass labs amps just to see what they could take : (
Well Albert was kind enough not only to repair but upgrade all the drivers and crossovers to the latest version for me and replace the socks for only $1200. The wood parts had also taken quite a beating so while the speakers were being repaired I took the wood pieces home and give them some much needed TLC. Rather than try and match the dark cherry color I decided to strip and sand all the wood to a natural cherry finish. I have a friend in the cabinet business and he gave me some tips on how to steam out the dents and also gave me a good quality wood finish to spray on the parts. They turned out quite nice and look brand new again.
 A few weeks later I received my repaired speakers and excitedly hooked them up. Well the sound that was coming out of my living room now absolutely stunned me!! I couldn’t believe how good these speakers sounded even without break in time yet. It was pure magic to my ears. I now could understand what all the audiophile superlatives meant that eluded me such as a huge soundstage, imaging, transparency, detail etc… !! I have had my speakers for about 8 months now and can say for the first time I have no desire to upgrade them. Every time I have a session with these speakers I am continually amazed and can’t put into words how much enjoyment they bring to me! Over the last 8 months I have managed to find a LCR-21 and a pair of TS-210’s to nearly complete my home theater (All I need is another pair of surrounds for the back surrounds) The only speaker I would like to upgrade is the LCR-21. I would like to find a LCR-31, 35, or even a 40 if possible to better match the VR-4’s
 I have many questions and much to learn still, and I figure that this is probably the best forum to learn from as Von Schweikert owner’s must know good sound and have somewhat similar taste.
I would eventually like to upgrade my electronics gear. Right now I am driving my speakers with a (Don’t laugh at me)  Denon 5805 receiver. When I originally first talked to Albert before deciding to buy the speakers I asked him if the Denon receiver would be enough to properly drive the speakers. He told me awhile back he decided to audition and test a bunch of different receivers with his speakers. He said that the Denons were his favorite and that he actually has one at home running his home theater. The 5805 is a pretty powerful receiver and to my semi uneducated ear sounds quite good, and the preamp section is extremely versatile and clean. I would like to eventually get separates when my budget permits. But at the time I was able to get the Denon for $1750 used and I don’t think I would have been able to touch this performance with separates at that price point. I know in this hobby that is actually pretty small change and many spend more than that on speaker cables but I have to accept the reality of my situation.
 
When I am ready I was thinking on getting a MacIntosh MC-207 or maybe a MC-206 with another 2 channel amp. I was wondering if any of you Mac owners could enlighten me on the different amps. Such as what is the difference between the MC-206 and the MC-207 the price jump on the used market between the two is double for only one channel difference.
Also any recommendations on some preamps/multichannel processors that are pretty reasonably priced on the used market?

I’ll save my other questions for later as I have rambled enough already!

Thanks for listening and any input,
Gary

[garyleg]

How do you post pics?

Thanks,
Gary

[JakeJ]

Hi Gary,

First, welcome to AC and let me say that is the best "high-end audio on the cheap" story I've ever heard. I own VR4 G3 HSE's too, but didn't get quite that good a deal on mine!

Here is an instructional thread on posting pics:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=36654.0

Drop me a PM if you need further help.

I do have a question for you. Can you give us the details on that process for steaming dents out of wood? A cabinet maker showed me how to raise dents by carefully placing a drop of water in the dent. It had to be just the right size fill the dent without going out on to the undamaged area. Works pretty good and with just a little sanding the original damage usually completely disappears. The steam method sound interesting and you can probably control the moisture better.

[garyleg]

Thanks for the help Jake. I posted some pics on the " Owners systems and setups" thread.

 sounds like your friends technic is simular. The technic I was taught for removing the dents was...Soak some cotton cloth(like t-shirt material) with water and wring it out slightly, then place the cloth over the dent and let it soak briefly ,then take a iron on the hot setting and iron the dented area. The steam created from the iron goes into the wood and forces the dent back out. It works like magic and I was amazed at the dents that came out. Some of the pieces were pretty thrashed had some pretty large dents. After this technic and a little sanding they were undetectable. as long as none of the wood has chipped of and is missing it works great.

Gary

[es347]

Hello everyone,

Warning-sorry this is so long but I just have to share my story with some people who may care!

Hey Gary,

No problem with the length of your post, I enjoyed it immensely.  So you've ended up with about $2K in your front speakers and I seriously doubt that you could find better sound for that investment.  You needn't apologize for using the Denon receiver.  I have been breaking in a pr. of Martin Logans that I just repaneled and have been driving them with an old low power integrated Yamaha and the sound is much better than it should be.  I do, however, support your choice of upgrade equipment.  If you would like to discuss MAC gear, send me a private message.  I'm new to the MAC world but will share what little I know.

Welcome to the wonderful world of VSA.

Gavin Hadley

[Delacroix]

Welcome Gary

and what a great story. I love to hear of people refurbishing and making gear work again after a previous owner abused it, there's a lot of pleasure to be had building, rebuilding and tweaking life back into gear and I swear, I never knew you could steam dents out of wood!

Getting to meet Albert is also nice touch here too. One aspect of hi-end audio that I most appreciate is the commitment of such people to spend their lives on audio design with the  aim of improving the reproduction of music. Most of them could make a far better living producing a mass market commodity and never having to deal with customers.

And Gavin, don't keep all those MAC insights to yourself, I want to learn all I can about gear so just throw it into the amp thread, it's all relevant.

[mfsoa]

Yeah, great story.
In contrast, I went to hear Mr. Vandersteen speak a month ago, and he made no bones about truly despising anyone who buys a pair of his speakers second-hand. I mean, How dare you take food off my family's plates you scum of the earth kind of feelings. I was really amazed at this and was wondering if other mfgs felt the same way. It was also nice to be told point blank that it's fine if we liked another speaker better, but by definition that means that we like the sound of distortion, plain and simple. 

Now I know where Albert stands on the issue! 

-Mike

[JakeJ]

Garyleg,

Very nice setup especially considering the investment. I like your technique better as it is quicker, the drop of water method is best left to swell overnight and dry before sanding. Cool trick with a home iron, my favorite kind of DIY fix!

I agree with Delacroix - I am interested in hearing other VSA owner's experience with Mac. Also anyones success using tubes for the M/T modules and solid state for the bass. Matching issues, best combinations, etc. Bring it! 

I find mfsoa's post of great interest!  What does he want people to do? Give them away or throw them in a land-fill? How does he treat customers who want to upgrade but need to move their old model on first? I think Frank Van Alstine's business model is one of the best in the industry. He takes in old stuff and gives a generous value toward the new piece. He'll even broker a piece of equipment! That's customer service in my book and I most likely will own some AVA gear in the future. When I contacted VSA and got the remainder of the guarantee transferred to my name it was easy quick and efficient with no negativity detected whatsoever. I look forward to Joe posting some detailed info about the VR4 to VR5 Anniv. as I am planning on this in 2009 if my job remains stable (or I find a better one ).

A bit off topic - a unique opportunity has presented itself to try two other reference grade speakers, and in my own home and system! This should be interesting! Pair #1 - Mordaunt-Short Performance 880's and Pair #2 Nesterovic 5as Epsilon Ref with Polyhedron add-on ribbon tweeters!   

Havin' fun,
Jake

[es347]

Welcome Gary

and what a great story. I love to hear of people refurbishing and making gear work again after a previous owner abused it, there's a lot of pleasure to be had building, rebuilding and tweaking life back into gear and I swear, I never knew you could steam dents out of wood!

Getting to meet Albert is also nice touch here too. One aspect of hi-end audio that I most appreciate is the commitment of such people to spend their lives on audio design with the  aim of improving the reproduction of music. Most of them could make a far better living producing a mass market commodity and never having to deal with customers.

And Gavin, don't keep all those MAC insights to yourself, I want to learn all I can about gear so just throw it into the amp thread, it's all relevant.

OK Delacroix, here goes. 

I first purchased the MC252 stereo amplifier and liked it a lot.  Very easy to listen to for hours, much to my wife's chagrin.  But I discovered that the 3-position rotary power switch was in fact 8-position.  As I learned from tech service at MAC, they had inadvertently forgotten to install a pin that prevents the knob from rotating past the 3rd position.  Not exactly what I would call stellar QC but I'll give them a pass on that one because they agreed to replace the unit.  Since we were back to square one, my dealer agreed to allow me to move up to the MC501 monoblocks for a % of the difference in msrp....I didn't lose a thing.  I have been running the 501s for a month or so and they are just as easy to listen to as the 252 but throw a much bigger soundstage, go lower and have more mid-bass slam.  I'd also have to say that the soundstage depth is greater as well.  These amps are not inexpensive but to improve on the sound, if you can, you would likely have to spend 2x.  There may be amplifiers that offer greater detail but it can come at the price of listening fatigue.  The front end obviously has a lot to do with what I am hearing and the MCD500 cd/sacd player is about as good as it gets.  I had the opportunity to A/B it with an MCD301 here in my system and felt the 500 is sonically superior but it also has an outstanding DAC with digital inputs so you can run it with a music server.  That will be my next purchase...not the ultra expensive MAC server but perhaps the Olive Opus or Apple Airport Express.  My preamp is the C46 and it was either that or the C45 which is multi-channel.  I opted to go with the C46 after reading several reviews on line.  Further, I think the C46 has a better volume control as well.  Anyway, it's feature-laden and sounds great so no regrets.  To sum up I'd have to say that you can probably get the same level of sonics for less money than MAC...perhaps McCormack or even AVA...but there is no denying that MAC retains more of it's value than just about anything; the build quality is wonderful and the allure of those aqua blue meter lights  ...all that was what caused me to drink the MAC koolaid.  Seriously though, there seems to be very good synergy between MAC electronics and these VSA speakers.  I know for a fact that there are many...perhaps even a majority...of VSA speakers out here being driven with MAC amplifiers. 

Not the most analytical (or anal if your prefer, ala Stereophile  ) of reviews but I hope maybe of some value.

[satfrat]

Yeah, great story.
In contrast, I went to hear Mr. Vandersteen speak a month ago, and he made no bones about truly despising anyone who buys a pair of his speakers second-hand. I mean, How dare you take food off my family's plates you scum of the earth kind of feelings. I was really amazed at this and was wondering if other mfgs felt the same way. It was also nice to be told point blank that it's fine if we liked another speaker better, but by definition that means that we like the sound of distortion, plain and simple. 

Now I know where Albert stands on the issue! 

-Mike

Mike, I heard the same lecture and I didn't come away with the same reaction that you did on Richard's felings about second-hand speakers. My take was if you decide to buy second hand Vandersteens, his company wouldn't work on them. They will only take care of their original owners. Frankly I see nothing wrong with that philosophy myself. Vandersteen is in the loudspeaker manufacturing business, not the loudspeaker repair business. They'll fully support original owners but don't deal with the used loudspeaker business. I don't look at this as Richard Vandersteen making " no bones about truly despising anyone who buys a pair of his speakers second-hand". I see it as Richard flatly stating that he doesn't service used loudspeakers and why should he if he chooses not to do so? I think it's a good thing to know upfront if I were considering a used set of Vandersteens myself instead of finding out after the fact.

Cheers,
Robin

[mfsoa]

Robin,
I hear what you're saying, and maybe I'm reading between the lines a little, but that's the impression I got - That if you are a second-hand owner he wants nothing to do with you. Seems like a self-defeating business strategy to me but he's doing well so what do I know?

It's sure quite different from the Albert story above, or the lengths Frank VA will go through if you are considering buying used AVA gear, or the "Welcome to the VAC family" you get from Kevin Hayes, or the response youl'd likely get from any of the Mfgs in the current "...loyalty..." thread.

-Mike

[Delacroix]

I find the Vandersteen stance, as reported, a little odd. I understand the company does not make money on the second sale but they don't lose money either. If the second owner needs work, presumably they can pay for it as an original owner would were the warranty over. There is also a good argument, in my mind, for looking after all your products, regardless of subsequent sale, in that it creates confidence in the brand and might encourage some to buy new by maintaining healthy used sale prices should they decide to move on later. I've had lots of dealings with other companies (e.g. BAT, PS Audio, Legacy, McCormack, etc) who have never had a problem with where or when I bought their product, they all have talked to me and helped with repairs or upgrades (Steve McCormack and Paul McGowan were particularly helpful in this regard), all of them making me feel like a valued customer. If I thought a company would not even deal with me if I had purchased their product on the used market, I'd never consider buying one of their designs used, though I might still buy it new if I thought it the best for me.  Maybe Vandersteen feels his stance encourages more new sales, but he certainly sounds like he wouldn't be inviting you round to his house to discuss a repair like Albert!