[EV-MAN]

Can you Convet MP3 to WAV ? I talked to Frank the other day about my new DAC and he told me that MP3 is not CD quailty and I have a ton of MP3. So I went to a web site called Download .com which has lots of free and pay for programs. I can download a program called Softdiv MPG to WAV which has a free trial. They claim that it will convert your MP3's to WAV files that have a bit rate of 44.1 kHz. Which is identical to CD quaility sound. Just wondering what you guys think and if any of you have tryed to do this. Bill

[Tom Alverson]

You can convert them back but the quality is already lost when they were converted to MP3.  If you use a newer DVD player as the source of the digital signal to your DAC, it will convert them on the fly.  You can fit quite a lot of MP3 music on a dual layer DVD disc.  All you need to do is burn a "data disc" on your computer with the MP3 files on it and play it back on your DVD player.  You can use a CD or a DVD.

Tom

[gjs_cds]

Tom is correct.  .mp3 is a lossy technology, and the damage is already done.  Further, you're going to lose w/ every format conversion (that involves a lossy codec).

The Philips DVD players read MP3, and the digital out is PCM, which will work just fine w/ Frank's DAC.

And for what it's worth--you can use iTunes to convert any number of formats to any number of (other) formats.  (Such as .mp3 back to .wav).

The thing to do is to download a program like iTunes and rip your CD collection into a lossless format (such as .wav or .aiff).  There are any number of ways to get the lossless data to Frank's DAC.

[strat95]

http://members.home.nl/w.speek/multi.htm

Download the free app at the link above.  It allows you to convert to just about any format from any format.

The other posters are 100% correct about the data already being lost on your mp3s.

TV

[EV-MAN]

I have iTunes. But how do I Rip my CD collection to a lossless format ? Also TV I downloaded the freeware and have tryed to figure it out but don't have a clue how to use it. Thanks Bill

[JerryM]

EV,

In iTunes, click on 'Edit' in the upper left of the iTunes window. From there, click on 'Preferences'. Then, click on the tab that says 'Advanced'; then the tab that says 'Importing'. There is a drop down box there that will let you select what format you want. 

Have fun,
Jerry

[gjs_cds]

Jerry's right--but it also depends on the OS and the version of iTunes.  (I'm assuming you're on Windows.  If you're on the Mac, let me know; I'm bi.  Bi-platform, that is.)  The import settings used to be in the Advanced tab, but it seems to have migrated into the "General" tab in version 8.0.2.

If you are using the most updated version....

Edit > Preferences > General (tab) > Import Settings > ...and then select the "import using" dialog.  I would suggest using either .aiff or .wav.  I know there's an Apple Lossless codec, but not many (if any) media devices read it.  Might as well stick to a standardized format.  Most media players will read either .aiff (cd format) or .wav.

Note--each CD will now be around 700 megs.  There is a price to be paid for lossless--and it's a massive increase in file size. 

If you're there, you could also fool around with continuing to use MP3--especially if you have it set to "custom"...at 320kbs VBR highest quality.  This will cut the file sizes down by around 80% relative to uncompressed file formats.

I use this setting for my non-critical listening albums, and with pretty satisfactory success.  I know this is evil and sacrilegious to many--but if it's for family background music, sometimes the convenience is worth it. 

I fully expect a beatdown at this point, but I'm prepared to take my chops.  I'm ready to come out of the closet.  I listen to compressed music formats every now and then.  Putting 23 albums on one DVD is just damn convenient, and it doesn't sound all that bad to my ears.  What can I say?--Frank's Insight DAC seems to make them unusually listenable.

Now--when I bring out the Bourbon, the (original) redbook CDs also come out to play...  (And this is usually after the kids are in bed...)

[EV-MAN]

Thanks guys  I appreciate all your help. Bill

[dB Cooper]

I fully expect a beatdown at this point, but I'm prepared to take my chops.  I'm ready to come out of the closet.  I listen to compressed music formats every now and then.  Putting 23 albums on one DVD is just damn convenient, and it doesn't sound all that bad to my ears.  What can I say?--Frank's Insight DAC seems to make them unusually listenable.

No beatdown here. I listen to compressed audio frequently. I find that if I don't have the expectation that the sound out of my Mac's headphone jack will equal that from a top of the line AVA system in a well set up room, I can still enjoy the music. In fact, it's surprising how well the sound holds up when you consider the amount of data that is tossed. I mean, if the music is good enough, you can enjoy it on a table radio. It just ain't gonna put that ear-to-ear grin on your face like a really good audio system will.

BTW, a dual layer dvd would probably hold 23 albums (or close to it) with lossless encoding, I would think. Guilt begone!

Now--when I bring out the Bourbon, the (original) redbook CDs also come out to play...  (And this is usually after the kids are in bed...)

Back in the day, a little bud used to do the same trick for me  Instant upgrade 
[/quote]

[Brett Buck]

EV,

In iTunes, click on 'Edit' in the upper left of the iTunes window. From there, click on 'Preferences'. Then, click on the tab that says 'Advanced'; then the tab that says 'Importing'. There is a drop down box there that will let you select what format you want. 

    And the one you want to select is "Apple Lossless Encoder". Although very-high-bitrate MP3 is pretty good, if you choose it, the files don't wind up a lot smaller than lossless. Apple Lossless loses *no* bits, unlike all the others, any copy you make is literally bit-for-bit identical to what was on the original CD.

      Brett

[JerryM]

EV,

In iTunes, click on 'Edit' in the upper left of the iTunes window. From there, click on 'Preferences'. Then, click on the tab that says 'Advanced'; then the tab that says 'Importing'. There is a drop down box there that will let you select what format you want. 

    And the one you want to select is "Apple Lossless Encoder". Although very-high-bitrate MP3 is pretty good, if you choose it, the files don't wind up a lot smaller than lossless. Apple Lossless loses *no* bits, unlike all the others, any copy you make is literally bit-for-bit identical to what was on the original CD.

      Brett

EV - While you're on that tab, make sure the checkbox below the drop down box that says "Use error correction when reading Audio CDs" is checked. It's basically a mistake by Apple that this box is not selected by Default.

Have fun,
Jerry

[Brett Buck]

EV,

In iTunes, click on 'Edit' in the upper left of the iTunes window. From there, click on 'Preferences'. Then, click on the tab that says 'Advanced'; then the tab that says 'Importing'. There is a drop down box there that will let you select what format you want. 

    And the one you want to select is "Apple Lossless Encoder". Although very-high-bitrate MP3 is pretty good, if you choose it, the files don't wind up a lot smaller than lossless. Apple Lossless loses *no* bits, unlike all the others, any copy you make is literally bit-for-bit identical to what was on the original CD.

      Brett

EV - While you're on that tab, make sure the checkbox below the drop down box that says "Use error correction when reading Audio CDs" is checked. It's basically a mistake by Apple that this box is not selected by Default.

   I agree with you, but it's not an accident. If it does error correction, it sometimes takes longer to do the import, and that why they defaulted it to off. Why you want to save 15 seconds on an import but allow errors is beyond me.

      Brett

[satfrat]

Jerry's right--but it also depends on the OS and the version of iTunes.  (I'm assuming you're on Windows.  If you're on the Mac, let me know; I'm bi.  Bi-platform, that is.)  The import settings used to be in the Advanced tab, but it seems to have migrated into the "General" tab in version 8.0.2.

If you are using the most updated version....

Edit > Preferences > General (tab) > Import Settings > ...and then select the "import using" dialog.  I would suggest using either .aiff or .wav.  I know there's an Apple Lossless codec, but not many (if any) media devices read it.  Might as well stick to a standardized format.  Most media players will read either .aiff (cd format) or .wav.

Note--each CD will now be around 700 megs.  There is a price to be paid for lossless--and it's a massive increase in file size. 

If you're there, you could also fool around with continuing to use MP3--especially if you have it set to "custom"...at 320kbs VBR highest quality.  This will cut the file sizes down by around 80% relative to uncompressed file formats.

I use this setting for my non-critical listening albums, and with pretty satisfactory success.  I know this is evil and sacrilegious to many--but if it's for family background music, sometimes the convenience is worth it. 

I fully expect a beatdown at this point, but I'm prepared to take my chops.  I'm ready to come out of the closet.  I listen to compressed music formats every now and then.  Putting 23 albums on one DVD is just damn convenient, and it doesn't sound all that bad to my ears.  What can I say?--Frank's Insight DAC seems to make them unusually listenable.

Now--when I bring out the Bourbon, the (original) redbook CDs also come out to play...  (And this is usually after the kids are in bed...)

Thank you for fully explaining the reason why I use WMA VBR. Being 57 and spending 35 years in a 90db machine factory, I feel it's more convienent for me and in my system to have 5000+ albums on 1 hard drive with quick n' easy access than it is to invest in a multiple hard driver server which will no doubt slow down album access, complicate my system and more importantly cost me money I don't really have. For my ears, my WMA VBR CDR's have a very high quality sound to them even if they are not studio quality. My recent NY RAVE I think proved out the fact that compressed VBR downloads have their merit, even in a highly resolved system. Thanks for coming out of the closet and keeping me company on this.


Cheers,
Robin

ps, I am in no way recommending VBR over lossless so don't anyone put words in my mouth, OK? Thanks for your understanding.

[gjs_cds]

And the one you want to select is "Apple Lossless Encoder". Although very-high-bitrate MP3 is pretty good, if you choose it, the files don't wind up a lot smaller than lossless. Apple Lossless loses *no* bits, unlike all the others, any copy you make is literally bit-for-bit identical to what was on the original CD.

      Brett

This may seem like a good idea in theory, until you establish your entire catalog in a format that won't work with most media players.  Does the Apple Lossless work with most non-apple portable devices?  (Does Apple even support it?)  Does Sonos support the Apple Lossless codec?  What about the Squeezebox?  What if he wants to burn files onto a DVD and play them that way?--Are there *any* players out there that support this format?

I've got nothing against the codec myself... I've just been bitten in the butt by using (supposedly better) non-standard codecs in the past.  I'd only use the Apple lossless codec if I was 100% sure that I was *only* going to stream from my computer (or use airtunes--or whatever that's called), with zero chance of future expansion to other devices.  If .aiff or .wav work losslessly, and every device out there reads them just fine... then I'm wondering exactly what the benefit is by using a codec that isn't universally supported.

[JerryM]

And the one you want to select is "Apple Lossless Encoder". Although very-high-bitrate MP3 is pretty good, if you choose it, the files don't wind up a lot smaller than lossless. Apple Lossless loses *no* bits, unlike all the others, any copy you make is literally bit-for-bit identical to what was on the original CD.

      Brett

This may seem like a good idea in theory, until you establish your entire catalog in a format that won't work with most media players.  Does the Apple Lossless work with most non-apple portable devices?  (Does Apple even support it?)  Does Sonos support the Apple Lossless codec?  What about the Squeezebox?  What if he wants to burn files onto a DVD and play them that way?--Are there *any* players out there that support this format?

I've got nothing against the codec myself... I've just been bitten in the butt by using (supposedly better) non-standard codecs in the past.  I'd only use the Apple lossless codec if I was 100% sure that I was *only* going to stream from my computer (or use airtunes--or whatever that's called), with zero chance of future expansion to other devices.  If .aiff or .wav work losslessly, and every device out there reads them just fine... then I'm wondering exactly what the benefit is by using a codec that isn't universally supported.

Apple Lossless is bit perfect. It can be converted, in iTunes, to any other lossles, bit perfect format. It makes as much sense to rip CDs into this format as any other bit perfect solution. 

[gjs_cds]

Apple Lossless is bit perfect. It can be converted, in iTunes, to any other lossles, bit perfect format. It makes as much sense to rip CDs into this format as any other bit perfect solution. 

Yeah--to each their own.  That added second step just isn't worth it to me, in the days where terabyte drives are 100 bucks...

But if that's how your roll, knock yourself out. 

[dB Cooper]

AIFF and WAV are uncompressed, not lossless compressed.

FLAC is more widely supported than ALAC. But as JerryM points out, unlike MP3 and OGG, you van convert between lossless formats without worry if something "better" (or just different) comes along.

Even with HD space price what it is, I'd rather use lossless- less wear and tear on the drive (only has to spin half as much).

Do you suppose Frank is wondering what this thread is doing in his forum yet 

[elmo366036]

Does Sonos support the Apple Lossless codec?


Sonos does not support the Apple lossless codec. I have about 700 CDs stored on an external HD in wav format and use the Sonos system to play them throughout the house.

[Brett Buck]

This may seem like a good idea in theory, until you establish your entire catalog in a format that won't work with most media players.  Does the Apple Lossless work with most non-apple portable devices?  (Does Apple even support it?)  Does Sonos support the Apple Lossless codec?  What about the Squeezebox?  What if he wants to burn files onto a DVD and play them that way?--Are there *any* players out there that support this format?

I've got nothing against the codec myself... I've just been bitten in the butt by using (supposedly better) non-standard codecs in the past.  I'd only use the Apple lossless codec if I was 100% sure that I was *only* going to stream from my computer (or use airtunes--or whatever that's called), with zero chance of future expansion to other devices.  If .aiff or .wav work losslessly, and every device out there reads them just fine... then I'm wondering exactly what the benefit is by using a codec that isn't universally supported.

        Well, the question *was* regarding iTunes specifically, and this is a high fidelity-oriented forum. Lossy formats are just that, lossy.  If you are using iTunes you are definitely going to want to use Apple lossless, which certainly is supported by iTunes and the iPod. 

   Most people's interest is in archiving the music in addition to playing it.  If you use an off-brand player, then you at least can write a perfect copy back out to CD, then re-import it into whatever reduced quality format you want, or into a separate music management system. I actually have several different iTunes libraries some of which have reduced-quality schemes to save space on my Nano - it really doesn't make any difference when you are actually going to play it on the iPod. A 320 kbps WAV is pretty much indistinguishable from a original-source CD on any portable music player, even with good headphones, but it's sure detectable on a decent hifi system.

    Brett

[turkey]

Apple Lossless is bit perfect. It can be converted, in iTunes, to any other lossles, bit perfect format. It makes as much sense to rip CDs into this format as any other bit perfect solution. 

Until Uncle Steve decides that you shouldn't be able to convert it and iTunes no longer has that option.

I'm leery of putting my data into _any_ Apple proprietary format. I'll stick with open, fully documented data formats, thank you very much.