[warnerwh]

In my opinion unless a reviewer has excellent acoustics in his/her room then the review regarding the sound can't be very accurate. The frequency response of a poor room is awful, easily audible and cannot possibly let someone know what anything really sounds like.

When you have modal ringing in the bass and a frequency response of plus minus 10db(real world would be closer to 15-20db) how could anybody think they have a good grasp on the sound of anything?  

[zybar]

In my opinion unless a reviewer has excellent acoustics in his/her room then the review regarding the sound can't be very accurate. The frequency response of a poor room is awful, easily audible and cannot possibly let someone know what anything really sounds like.

When you have modal ringing in the bass and a frequency response of plus minus 10db(real world would be closer to 15-20db) how could anybody think they have a good grasp on the sound of anything?  

Great point!   

That's why I want to see pictures of reviewers rooms and setups.

Too many reviewers have totally crappy rooms and poor setups.   

George

[Kevin Haskins]

I agree to a point.    I'm able to voice a loudspeaker in my warehouse though and still move it to a room and get good results.   The warehouse is big enough that it doesn't have the huge bass problems of a typical room but it is a horrible acoustical environment for listening.    Some of the characteristics of a good loudspeaker can be heard in almost any room.   

If you have huge bass problems though it can also cloud your judgment of other ranges.   Our brain pieces the response together and I've made changes to one part of the spectrum that are clearly audible in another.    The response hasn't changed up there but the way my brain perceives it has. 

[TONEPUB]

That's why I've taken a fair amount of time working on my listening room.

I've had it measured twice now and both guys said I have slight
bump at 40hz, (about 1.5 db) that's it. With careful speaker and
subwoofer placement, I've been able to eliminate it.

My living room though is the typical room that most people have to
deal with; windows, hardwood floors and area rug, big coffee table
along with limited speaker placement options.  I see this room as more
of a torture test.

Also, that's why we like to try speakers that we have in for review
in at least 2 or 3 different rooms.  We also try any given pair of
speakers with at least 6 or 7 different types of amplifiers to see any
incompatibilities.  When I worked for Harry Pearson, he used to demand
that you tried a review set of speakers with at least 3 or 4 different
types of amplifiers.

I own (not on long term loan) a CJ Premier 350 that will pretty
much drive anything, a Nagra PSA (100wpc solid state), a McIntosh
MC275, Red Wine Audio 30.2, CJ MV-75a1, a Rega Elicit and a
Luxman L-590aII.

In addition to that, we always have about 5 or 6 amps in for review,
so that makes it pretty easy to spend a few days in the review cycle
just trying different amps and cables.

Of course, we can't try everything, but we do have a pretty reasonable
cross section.

I always ask a mfr if there is a magic combination that they prefer with
their speakers and try to get it and see how it compares to our stuff whenever
we can.

[warnerwh]

Being as your room is as accurate as I believe you're saying then you have an excellent acoustical environment.
I do however want to make sure I am clear in understanding what you said.  Your room has got a 1.5 db bump and that's it?

Being as that is the case you certainly have a solid platform to analyze the way components sound.

[Brown]

What I would love to see reviewed are complete systems by Manfs pitted against other complete systems using the same ref speaker. Say Bryston against Audio Research for example. Two different approaches. One would think that complete systems have a synergy that would be hard to beat.
  What do you guys think ?

[TONEPUB]

We often see that...

For example we have a BAT VK32 SE preamp and VK 55SE power amp in right now.
Of course, the two sound great together, but the BAT preamp with my reference CJ
power amp sounds a little thin.  The BAT power amp with CJ Preamp sounds just fine...

I've noticed that almost all mfrs gear sounds great when used together, Red Wine
Audio, Nagra CJ, McIntosh, Classe.  Most sounds pretty good with other gear, because
everyone likes to mix and match.

We are also in the process of doing a lot more system oriented reviews in the future
for people who love music but really don't want to become hardcore audiophiles...

[*Scotty*]

Why are almost all reviews without exception positive? Everything made cannot sound great or even good and this goes far beyond any cases of system incompatibility. The, we all hear different argument doesn't really hold any water.  What are the long term consequences to the reviewer and the publisher of a negative review?
Scotty

[mcullinan]

Yeah... what about a magazine called "This Sh*t SUCKS"
And have all the crappy reviews of all the crappy products out there.
It might be a thick magazine...

But why would people want to listen to crap all day?
I think the majority of products are good that are out there. The difference between good and GREAT is subtle and only a few products exemplify this. So in fact.. you are reading good reviews most of the time... not GREAT reviews.
Mike

[FB101]

Why are almost all reviews without exception positive? Everything made cannot sound great or even good and this goes far beyond any cases of system incompatibility. The, we all hear different argument doesn't really hold any water.  What are the long term consequences to the reviewer and the publisher of a negative review?
Scotty

Quite a number of us are not professional reviewers and as a reminder 6-Moons writers do not get paid; we pick gear based on requests from manufacturers crossed with our own interests and experience with brands we know we enjoy. Why would any of us bother reviewing gear we know we won't enjoy under those conditions? Even as such, we sometimes end up with gear we do not particularly enjoy.

As Mike mentioned, he or I are just enthousiastic lobbyists who like sharing our experiences. Nothing more (Jeff's perspective may be different obviously). Which means that we are both free to pick the gear we want to review as well as are free to say what we think but most of the "filtering" and "weeding" happened before the gear even made it to our place.

Commiting to a review is a lot of work, reception and shipping of boxes that weight sometimes more than 100lb each, perpetually changing system, painful break-in for gear received new... then comparitive listening cessions and finally weeks to write-up an article. When you do all that for free, why would you on top shoot for gear that is likely to be disappointing and cause tension with a manufacturer?

Yet I have written my share of luke-warm reviews and more to come but I never look forward to it.

[woodsyi]

Why are almost all reviews without exception positive? Everything made cannot sound great or even good and this goes far beyond any cases of system incompatibility. The, we all hear different argument doesn't really hold any water.  What are the long term consequences to the reviewer and the publisher of a negative review?
Scotty

Quite a number of us are not professional reviewers and as a reminder 6-Moons writers do not get paid; we pick gear based on requests from manufacturers crossed with our own interests and experience with brands we know we enjoy. Why would any of us bother reviewing gear we know we won't enjoy under those conditions? Even as such, we sometimes end up with gear we do not particularly enjoy.

As Mike mentioned, he or I are just enthousiastic lobbyists who like sharing our experiences. Nothing more (Jeff's perspective may be different obviously). Which means that we are both free to pick the gear we want to review as well as are free to say what we think but most of the "filtering" and "weeding" happened before the gear even made it to our place.

Commiting to a review is a lot of work, reception and shipping of boxes that weight sometimes more than 100lb each, perpetually changing system, painful break-in for gear received new... then comparitive listening cessions and finally weeks to write-up an article. When you do all that for free, why would you on top shoot for gear that is likely to be disappointing and cause tension with a manufacturer?

Yet I have written my share of luke-warm reviews and more to come but I never look forward to it.

 Freudian slip?

[Brian Cheney]

Most reviewers ask for equipment they're familiar with and like.  Unless they enjoy bashing gear to establish a rep for themselves as "hard to please" or "distinguished".

Please note that a good review guarantees nothing, most particularly success in the marketplace.  On the other hand, a bad review can be devastating, particularly financially for the manufacturer.  So, sending out gear blind is simply too risky.  Who knows, the reviewer might have an agenda and some do.

That said, we're taking it upon ourselves to be either: 1. thoroughly embarrassed or 2. gloriously successful at this upcoming CES, where we're doing a live-vs-recorded demonstration with our V60 speakers.  Ray Kimber will record and play back on his state of the art two channel DSD gear and Schoeps mics.  Alexis Park, Zeus Ballroom, Jan 8-11.

Be there or be square!

B Cheney
Pres VMPS Ribbon
www.vmpsaudio.com

[*Scotty*]

mcullinan,
My experience with audio gear has been that the quality,that is to say the fidelity of music reproduction has followed a bell shaped curve with fully fifty percent of all equipment falling in the middle of the curve and classed as mediocre. The upper end of good and great occupying only twenty-five percent of all equipment. The equipment in the great category occupies the thin end of the wedge. It might be a stretch to say that one percent would fall into this category, the cutting edge of perfection is a constantly moving target. As always your mileage may have varied. I think my point still stands,we are missing the rest of the story. There is a lack of even cautionary tales.
Scotty

[FB101]

[
 Freudian slip?

  that's gotta be a Freudian slip, that's gotta be  

[*Scotty*]

Brian, I think you should be fairly successful with your live vs. recorded demonstration at CES. This type of demo worked out very well for Acoustic Research. When they did this back in the 60's they used recordings of the live performers done in an acoustically dead studio and audience members were hard pressed to tell the difference between the two.
Scotty

[Brian Cheney]

While this is true, that's not what we're doing. 

They used just a drum set at moderate levels, we have seven performers including two singers.  We have an audience participation number where all 30 listeners will sing along.  We are recording and playing back in the same environment, which brings up "The Problem of the Two Acoustics" (See the thread on the VMPS Forum "VMPS, Ampzilla, and Live Music at 2009 CES" for a discussion of this.) Playback will be instantaneous after recording.

Plus will are dealing with an audience of press and audiophiles, not casual consumers.  I doubt they will be as easily convinced.

On the other hand, Albert von Schweikert did something similar at the San Remo in 2004, with excellent results.  He was using his $125,000 flagship, we have the $12,000 V60's with two VSS subs. On both occasions, Ray Kimber was (is) the recordist.