[Tyson]

Imagine that ice cream costs $500 per scoop, and some flavors were not available in your town.  So you had to rely on "expert reviews" to tell you about green tea or pistachio ice cream.  Imagine making your decisions based on that.  Best to buy used ice cream.

[TONEPUB]

That's a pretty lame comparison....

Again, a good review should only point you in a direction
and give you some ideas for your short list.

Imagine you want to buy a 5000 dollar pair of speakers and the
only way you can get a pair is to buy em used.  You have a tube
amplifier that really doesn't work well with the speakers you are thinking
of buying, but you have no way of knowing that.

Perhaps in this instance a review might have saved you some trouble.

The problem with just relying on forum people to tell you what to investigate
is that they are typically biased towards the gear they own, thinking that's the
"best" for any circumstance.

A good example of this is on another forum I used to frequent, a person asked
"what speakers should I buy?'  His room was 10 x 12 and he had an 18 watt
EL-84 based amplifier.

Of course the guy that owns Magnepans, said "Buy Maggies, they're the best!"
and the guy with Harbeth Monitor 40's said "Buy a pair of 40.1's, they're the best"
and the guy with B&W 801D's, said "Buy 801D's, they're the best"

Guess what, none of those speakers would be a good combination in that room with that
amp, so one could pose that the forum information is pretty useless as well.  But the guy
who has had a pair of Magnepans for the last five years probably hasn't listened to much
else in that time.

Which is also not true all of the time.  I've found forums extremely helpful
when I want to know more about a specific product, and see what the experience
has been of a bigger pool of people has been.

Of course a review will not always lead you to your ultimate conclusion,
but there is a lot of useful information on both sides of the fence.

[TONEPUB]

And if I read a few good reviews on $500 a scoop ice cream
that I had a good experience with when I tried them, I'd probably
take a chance on another $500 scoop of ice cream that that
reviewer had suggested.

It's the same with wine, cars, movies, travel, you name it.

Everyone can't be everywhere doing everything.

[Tyson]

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[Zero]

Ah, to wear the reviewer stripes. Silly Jeff, dontcha know that you just have zero street cred until you have met the following criteria;

- You have been everywhere, and have experienced everything respective to the industry you are writing for
- You have owned, or currently own everything in that industry in order to make truly fair comparisons between products under review
- You can provide detailed measured analysis of your findings (such as a diagram of the DNA content of the citrus used in a beverage under review)
- You are a literary scholar with the keen ability to describe your experiences in a way that will satisfy every single person on planet earth
- You should also maintain a respectable reputation -  being hailed as deity of a small south pacific colony is a good start
- All reviews are to be flawless in the eyes of every man. Mistakes are punishable by fire and brimstone (a proper deity's death)
- You should be completely selfless, and use your great wealth and knowledge as a free service to the industry you support
- Accordingly, you should pay twice the MSRP price just to prove your level of commitment to the industry

Then and only then, are you qualified to wear the Reviewers badge.  

Kinda' makes ya want to get back to the forum's a bit, where a simple "Hey guys! Check out this </insert random product here/>, it totally pwnz my </ditto/>."   - - will result in a predictable  - - "RLY!? ZOMG!! I WANT 1""!"!" charade. Fun stuff..!  

[Rob Babcock]

I don't have the luxury of buying everything that interests me, even used.  Reviews are pretty useful to me, but YMMV.

[miklorsmith]

On the Ice Cream analogy, if there weren't reviews of it you might not even know that pistachio-strawberry even exists.

Forum reviews are reviews too.  Generally they are shorter and the authors don't write many reviews.  Unless you know the person and their gear experience and thoughts, it's hard to connect the dots. 

One of the benefits of formal reviews to me comes from following a particular writer.  If my observations of a piece line up with theirs, +1 for that guy.  If it sounds much different to me I might assign less weight to their words in the future.

These days it's hard to hear many of the options out there unless one lives in a big city.  What are the choices then?  One could buy only gear available for demo in their town.  Used gear could inform most/all of the user's dietary habits.  That's no panacea and how do we get information on used gear?

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to seek out a particular form of entertainment, say the movies, then complain about the entire experience.  You pay to get in, go through the ritual, get home, and say "I can't stand going to the movies."  The easy response is "don't go to the movies".

If you don't like formal reviews, don't read them.  Suspicious motives, backdoor deals, outright grift.  Do these things happen?  Maybe.  Outside the reviewer and their immediate contacts with the company under review nobody really knows exactly what arrangements were made.  "OOOOhhh, what if he got a discount on this thing he's reviewing?!?!"

Guess what?  Odds are whatever discount he's getting would be gotten on whatever other piece he chooses to buy.  So from his standpoint he chooses what he likes best, just like you.  And, within the realm of all the things he could buy he's making his decision on what he likes and keeps just like you.  With whatever discount the stuff still isn't cheap.

Each reader can decide how much credence to assign any review.  The answer could be "none, I just read for pleasure" to "I buy everything that gets a good review".  Of course the latter is plain silly but each of us falls somewhere along the continuum.  I say read as much as you can on the forums and in formal reviews.  Get some ideas, if you're interested in something, don't be afraid to contact anyone on the forums or at a publication to ask specific questions about how their experience could dovetail with your situation.  Be proactive.

Or, you can sit on the sidelines and whine about how you hate going to the movies over and over and over.

p.s.  Writing reviews is a lot of freakin' work.  So if the writers get a little testy when folks crap on 'em that's why.

[mcgsxr]

I read reviews, and I absolutely have been influenced by reviews.  Heck, I have even written a few "light" reviews of product on this site.

I don't believe everything I read, but the sum total of the reviews is something I consider, especially when buying used and having something shipped.

Has served me well over the last couple of years around this place.

[Kevin Haskins]

This seems to be a hot-button topic like cables.   

My view is that when you get on a forum and give your opinion, you are writing a review.    It is much more informal and people don't seem to lay the same standards on personal opinions as they do on professional reviews published, but it is still a review.

I think published reviews are helpful to the general public.   The more involved you get in the hobby the more experience you have and the less you need someone's help in picking out equipment.   Reviewers tend to have some kind of experience in the industry and their opinion tends to help consumers find their way to a product that fits their needs.    As long as you keep them in the perspective of being a tool, they are useful.   

[Kimo]

Perhaps, I should have titled the original thread "Why reviewers don't matter enough."  

[miklorsmith]

Kevin - it is a hot-button topic but I honestly can't see why.  My goal is to inform the reader as best I can.  If the reader doesn't find my information useful or worth the zero dollars they paid to read it, who cares?  I don't expect everyone to love what I write, hell some people probably hate it. 

But I'm a hobbyist too.  I mess around with stuff, it's a journey.  Like everyone I can only compare what I've personally heard and even that's hard because each system is a system, not one thing.  Even in my own system certain combinations work better, swapping one piece often doesn't work until something else is changed.  No piece of a system makes music by itself so how do I isolate down to the sound of "one hand clapping"?

I don't think I'm perfect, and neither should you.  If you buy something because I like it, I really hope you do but it's no shock if you don't.  We all have different ears, systems, rooms, preferences.  I've bought stuff that has gotten universal praise and not liked it.  I've also had great luck with some well-reviewed pieces.  It's all a crap shoot, the best you can do is help your odds through due diligence.

Question - has anyone ever been interested in a piece and wished there were MORE reviews out there on it?  I have, every single time I'm seriously considering buying anything.

Kimo - I don't think reviewers should matter "more".  If you read somebody's work and they think everything they review is "the best", that's not very helpful to you.  Maybe that fellow's stuff doesn't aid your journey.  But, I'd wager somebody is benefiting from his work on their own personal path.  It's a big, wide world out there.

[TheChairGuy]

Reviewers are merely mortals...prone to the same non-linearities and subjectivities as the rest of us.

There are no barriers or criteria to do it...one need only write reasonably well and want to do it.  This weeds very few out.

Most are lacking any test equipment except their experience and skilled hands (which is not the worst thing to have going for you )...which tends to skew them to more subjective reasoning.

So, I guess what it boils down to is the typical audio reviewer is just a hobbyist like you...and prone to subjective thoughts and nervosa as you are plagued with ....keep that all in perspective and you'll be fine.

btw, I'm a total fanboy of Jeff/TONEPUB and I think both his e-zine and mere presence around AC has benefited many of us the past couple years. 

Ciao, John

[Kevin Haskins]

Kevin - it is a hot-button topic but I honestly can't see why.  My goal is to inform the reader as best I can.  If the reader doesn't find my information useful or worth the zero dollars they paid to read it, who cares?  I don't expect everyone to love what I write, hell some people probably hate it. 

But I'm a hobbyist too.  I mess around with stuff, it's a journey.  Like everyone I can only compare what I've personally heard and even that's hard because each system is a system, not one thing.  Even in my own system certain combinations work better, swapping one piece often doesn't work until something else is changed.  No piece of a system makes music by itself so how do I isolate down to the sound of "one hand clapping"?

I don't think I'm perfect, and neither should you.  If you buy something because I like it, I really hope you do but it's no shock if you don't.  We all have different ears, systems, rooms, preferences.  I've bought stuff that has gotten universal praise and not liked it.  I've also had great luck with some well-reviewed pieces.  It's all a crap shoot, the best you can do is help your odds through due diligence.

Question - has anyone ever been interested in a piece and wished there were MORE reviews out there on it?  I have, every single time I'm seriously considering buying anything.

Kimo - I don't think reviewers should matter "more".  If you read somebody's work and they think everything they review is "the best", that's not very helpful to you.  Maybe that fellow's stuff doesn't aid your journey.  But, I'd wager somebody is benefiting from his work on their own personal path.  It's a big, wide world out there.

Keep on doing what you are doing.   I've found no matter what you do, there will be someone around to throw rocks at you.   It is easy to throw the rocks, tougher to take the lumps.   

 

[miklorsmith]

Oh yeah, my skin is pretty thick as John/TCG will attest.     Lucky for me, I don't need validation from others.

[woodsyi]

People just hear differently.  When you consider that every one of us is a unique person even though we all have the same basic building blocks, you have to admit that each one of us is wired differently.  Given that, I can only follow "reviewers" who hears like I do.  So, I think reviews are useful only if I know the reviewers and I can correlate their findings within my evaluative scheme based on past experiences.  If I have no a cross reference, a review doesn't mean much to me.  Whether the reviewer is "right" or "wrong" is irrelevant to me at this stage.

[Kimo]

A professional review should be the product of an analysis, not an enticement, not a statement of personal preference, or an an exercise in hyperbole.  Professional reviewers should have a better appreciation and understanding of the products that they review, more so than an average audio schmuck such as myself.  They should be impartial and endeavor to accurately describe the "sound" of the product as it works in their particular system context.  They should have decent hearing to boot.

What they should write: When speaker cable X was inserted into my SET single driver system, the sound changed this way.  This change was similar or dissimilar to speaker cable Y, Z, Q in the following way(s).

What I often read: Speaker cable X was the most neutral transparent incredible piece of wire ever created (at least until next month).

And while I am at it, reviewers should banish the word neutral completely from their vocabulary.  Neutral is thrown about as an absolute, when it can only reasonably be presented in relative terms.  Ask Switzerland.

I understand that everyone has their own style, but tightening up the approach a bit couldn't hurt.

One more thing, they should be right more often.  For example, every time I hear a tripath based amp and that odd treble signature, I have to wonder why I don't typically see that signature mentioned in print.

Does all this really sound that crazy?

[hmen]

You really have to judge the source of the review. I can think of one glossy magazine where it seems every product gets a great review. 

[miklorsmith]

I'm not a professional reviewer, never claimed to be.  I'm a hobbyist with a part-time gig that doesn't pay one cent.  I prefer the term "formal review".  I'm also not speaking for "reviewers", merely for myself.  "We're" often grouped but we don't have a club or anything.  Most of "us" are just guys who listen to music and can write coherent sentences.

I personally try to leave what "I like" out of the equation but that's hard to do when describing experiences that are inherently emotional, or not.

Auditory memory is sketchy at best.  Comparing to XYZ can be useful, especially if you have it on hand.  However, system interactions are notoriously individual and it's best not to take those comments too seriously either.  If one has the luxury of multiples of everything, that certainly can help the triangulation process but we don't all (read: me) have endless dough to spend on gear and thus our access is limited.  Even if I've had four preamplifiers through my ever-evolving system in the last year I'm hesitant to compare if they are not in-house at the time because other stuff probably changed along the way too.  

Neutral can mean a lot of things, I'll give you that.  Theoretical neutrality, as in being at the concert/studio is a noble goal but it's a rare day when I hear "neutral" gear sound like that.

How do you know when reviewers aren't "right"?  You weren't there listening to their systems during the evaluation.  And even if you were, you may be looking for different things than them.  I've had many experiences where folks in the same room didn't agree.  Gear isn't correct or wrong in any absolute sense.  Stuff that measures great can sound crappy and vice versa.  

I'd love it if I could read a review of something and know for sure if I'd like it.  It would make life a lot easier.  Alas, I do not believe that to be possible and thus do not expect this of others nor endeavor to create such works.

[Kimo]

Well, let us just say that I and others have heard things which have been clearly missed in print.  I conclude that the review was inaccurate.  The tripath example for example.  Outboard dacs in general.  Wow, major issues there, but rarely mentioned.  Speakers with complex crossovers shoving the midrange into another room. 

If reviewing audio equipment is a merely subjective experience, than reviewers and reviews will not matter as much.  That about sums it up, I guess.

[miklorsmith]

Fair enough.

Oh, on the Tripath thing - I use Red Wine Tripath amps as my reference, they're absolutely sublime.  There's individuality for you.