At Current Market Price, Nikon D80 or D90?

viggen · « **on:** 30 Nov 2008, 01:23 am »

Just want your opinion on whether the advantages of the D90 is worth the extra $300 over the D80.

Adorama has the D80 for $579. I originally budgeted about $300 for a new camera. I am already stretching my budget to $700 for the D80 with 50mm f1.8 lens. However, every review I've read says go for the D90. But, these were written was before the D80 price drop.

What say you?

viggen · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Nov 2008, 03:32 am »

Update - D80 currently $549. D90 still $879...

JohnR · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Nov 2008, 05:37 am »

Hm, tough call...

A friend of mine bought one and seems happy with it. He wanted the D90 because of the better high-ISO performance. I think he was thinking about chasing his kids indoors and so on. Apparently they just like the movie mode though, as far as they are concerned that's the only fun part about Dad's new camera

Anyway, seriously, dpreview lists key differences here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond90/ . My take on it would to evaluate how important the following are to you: improved UI, better LCD, better high-ISO performance. And live-view, that would be pretty handy for macro and for focusing fast manual-focus lenses, I don't think I would use it for general shooting. Those seem like the most important things (to me, IMHO, YMMV, etc). Note that for shooting at regular ISOs in normal situations, none of the above make much if any difference to image quality.

(Disclaimer: I have only used the above cameras to the extent of playing with someone else's. My own cameras are the D40 and S5 Pro.)

JohnR

viggen · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Nov 2008, 08:04 am »

Thank you John.

I guess I should explain why I am buying a new camera. I took my gf to Vancouver recently. And, about 2/3 of the pics didn't come out very nicely. Shots taken after 2pm in cloudy Vancouver were noisy and, for the most part, out of focus. I am currently using a Panny FX01. I love the size. The picture in board day light is good to fantastic. The indoor/low light shots are very dismal. And, the camera focuses very slowly. In fact, when in low light situation, the camera doesn't even focus on what I aim at.

So, I started looking at new cameras. I really like D40's form factor. However, I don't like the fact that the camera doesn't have AF built in because it forces me to purchase expensive AF-S lenses. That's the only reason why I am stepping up to the D80. Having more megapixel is gravy too as it would be less consequential for me to take wide angle shots and crop them to look like telephoto shots.

However, if the D90 takes way better pics than the D80, then there isn't a point in buying the D80 I guess. But, if the only differences are technically marginal, then I can live without the D90. Although, having movie recording mode up to 720p res with HDMI output is very tempting features. From what I read, the movie mode on the D90 is very very high quality even better than HD camcorders. Given that consumer HD camcorders can cost anywhere between $600 to $1200, the extra $300 doesn't seem like such a big deal huh?

I don't think I will use manual focus all that much nor use macro lenses, so I probably wouldn't need the other improvements the D90 have over the D80...

So, that's my logic thus far... let me know if I am being practical...

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Nov 2008, 12:44 pm »

The live view feature of the D90 would be fantastic to have. Would have come in handy a few times.

I've not used a D80 or a D90, but own a D40 and am very happy with it.

Bob

Audiovista · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Nov 2008, 01:24 pm »

I read that some new DSLR cameras with HD movie mode do not allow auto focus when in the movie mode

. If true, it would be very difficult to manually focus while shooting. Worth checking out if that applies to D90....

gary · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Nov 2008, 02:27 pm »

Manual focus only on the D90 when shooting movies, unfortunately. And since you have to use live view while doing it, this does make the whole video feature a lot less attractive. It's still nice to have, and I've definitely taken some good videos with it. Who knows... maybe they'll add AF in a future firmware?

I upgraded from a D40, one big reason was that being constrained to AF-S or HSM lenses was not cool. The D90 is an amazing camera for the money and I love mine... I have very little experience with the D80 but my opinion is that the gorgeous 3" screen, movie mode, and active D-Lighting easily make the D90 worth the extra money over it.

gary

viggen · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Nov 2008, 08:26 pm »

Thank you everyone. I just canceled my D80 with 50mm 1.8 order with Adorama.

It just seems like the D90 is a better value after it drops another hundred bucks. I won't be going on a trip within a few months, so I can wait.

I might even go with a D40 with the kit lens and use my gf's old manual lenses in the mean time until Nikon decides to release some decent AF-S prime lenses lower than 50mm and doesn't cost an arm.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Dec 2008, 01:48 am »

The D90 also has some dynamic range compression, which works very well according to some people. It also has a more advanced 3d tracking AF system. It has face detection AF if you need to pass the camera to a family member or friend who isn't up to speed on how "manual" AF works. It also shoots 50% faster than the D80, if you need it.

jqp · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Dec 2008, 03:12 am »

The D40 kit is $449 at Crutchfield right now if you go with that

Thebiker · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Dec 2008, 05:30 am »

The problem with your Panny is pretty common among the P&S line. It has better optics (Leica) than it has firmware. Daylight and short flash is usually quite good. As soon as you get to low light or the farther reaches of its flash, it gets very grainy.

I just bought my daughter a new Leica p&s for her birthday. It looks a lot like the Panny, but has better image stabilization and much better low light performance due to Leica's proprietary firmware. The Leica C-LUX 2 goes for around $370. I know you are currently more interested in the DSLR Nikons at the moment, but for a camera that you can drop into your pocket, the little Leica is a hoot!

Walt

JohnR · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 Dec 2008, 09:28 am »

Quote from: viggen on 30 Nov 2008, 08:26 pm

I might even go with a D40 with the kit lens and use my gf's old manual lenses in the mean time until Nikon decides to release some decent AF-S prime lenses lower than 50mm and doesn't cost an arm.

Couldn't hurt to factor the D60 into the mix in that case. B&H are selling it with the 18-55 VR (i.e. the latest vesion) and the OLD 55-200 for $588.

A couple of thoughts on the lens front. You mentioned a 50/1.8 - bear in mind that 50mm is not a "normal" lens on DX format, it's a short telephoto. A "normal" would be 30 or 35mm. In Nikon DX land this and below is really zoom territory.

The kit lenses are actually pretty reasonable -- see a review of the latest (VR version) kit lens here:

http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/nikon_18-55_3p5-5p6_vr_n15/

In general I think it's a good idea (money wise) to live with the kit lens for a while and then decide where you need to spend money on other lenses (macro, wide, fast/street, fast/portrait, fast(-ish) zoom, telephoto etc).

NealH · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Dec 2008, 02:36 pm »

I just purchased a D90 yesterday at my local Best Buy for $1118. They honored their on-line price. It came with the 18-105 VR lens. There is a large number of adjustments at hand, though most can stay at default. Its a nice camera and I do like the larger display, but if cost is a concern then I would recommend the D80. Its also a good camera and given current pricing, it's somewhat of a bargain. Unless you're in a lab, I doubt there is any real world difference in the picture quality from these two cameras.

viggen · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Dec 2008, 08:13 pm »

Quote from: jqp on 1 Dec 2008, 03:12 am

The D40 kit is $449 at Crutchfield right now if you go with that

Amazon has it for $409. It is very tempting. Ebay has lots of "demo" body only for around $300. I also have a 10% coupon from ebay...

This would work for me as I don't want the kit lens mainly because of its build quality. I've read it actually produces very good image quality.

viggen · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Dec 2008, 08:14 pm »

Quote from: Thebiker on 1 Dec 2008, 05:30 am

I just bought my daughter a new Leica p&s for her birthday. It looks a lot like the Panny, but has better image stabilization and much better low light performance due to Leica's proprietary firmware. The Leica C-LUX 2 goes for around $370. I know you are currently more interested in the DSLR Nikons at the moment, but for a camera that you can drop into your pocket, the little Leica is a hoot!

Walt

I read a few reviews of the Leica before moving on to DSLR. I guess I rushed it when reading the reviews. Some claimed the Leica is noisy in low light just like the Panny. However, after carefully reading the reviews again, Leica is noisy above 200iso which I probably wouldn't be at even in moderate low light?

NealH · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Dec 2008, 08:19 pm »

The Amazon deal on the D40 is too good to pass up - imho. Buy it and, you can get something else later assuming you will need something else.

viggen · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Dec 2008, 08:20 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 1 Dec 2008, 09:28 am

Couldn't hurt to factor the D60 into the mix in that case. B&H are selling it with the 18-55 VR (i.e. the latest vesion) and the OLD 55-200 for $588.

A couple of thoughts on the lens front. You mentioned a 50/1.8 - bear in mind that 50mm is not a "normal" lens on DX format, it's a short telephoto. A "normal" would be 30 or 35mm. In Nikon DX land this and below is really zoom territory.

The kit lenses are actually pretty reasonable -- see a review of the latest (VR version) kit lens here:

http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/nikon_18-55_3p5-5p6_vr_n15/

In general I think it's a good idea (money wise) to live with the kit lens for a while and then decide where you need to spend money on other lenses (macro, wide, fast/street, fast/portrait, fast(-ish) zoom, telephoto etc).

Yes, I've taken these into consideration. I went to Ritz and played with the D80 and D40 a bit. I attached the 50mm 1.8 to the D80, looked thru the view finder and didn't find it to be too much of a tele. I know the DX lenses are 1.5x. I think I can live with it.

If only the D40 accepts this lens, then it would be a near perfect combo for me. Plus, I really like the size and feel of the lens and body.

As for the kit lens, what really turned me off is the build quality...

viggen · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Dec 2008, 08:27 pm »

Quote from: NealH on 1 Dec 2008, 08:19 pm

The Amazon deal on the D40 is too good to pass up - imho. Buy it and, you can get something else later assuming you will need something else.

If I factor in the 50mm AFS lens, then I am will plop down another $400 on top of the body. This is what makes the D80 more appealing at $550 on Adorama right now.

If I went with the D80 with 50mm 1.8, the total price is $650 which is a really good. However, no matter which body I go with, additional lenses will all cost atleast $300 even for none AF-S.

So, right now, I am really leaning towards the D40... 80% sure.

low.pfile · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Dec 2008, 08:43 pm »

viggen (as in Vegan?)
I find the 50mm a bit too close up for interior people shots on my D80. Great for face portraits, but you have to back up quite a bit to get more that shoulders and face in the frame. So for something like an indoor party, I like the 24mm more - it's more versatile. Though the 50 f1.8 is a great lens. Could be fine for more still life and/or street shots.

Image below is an example of the 24mm f2.8 lens

gary · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Dec 2008, 09:19 pm »

The D40 is a great camera, but definitely skip the 18-55mm kit lens. I'm really impressed with the 18-105mm VR lens that comes with the D90 kit; build and image quality are much better than the plasticky 18-55. You could probably buy one cheap on craigslist from someone who bought the D90 kit when it first came out but has no need for that lens. To tell you the truth, I hardly ever even bother putting my 50mm 1.8 lens on... I use the 18-105 about 90% of the time (my other lenses are 105mm vr, sigma 18-50mm hsm ex and 70-300mm vr).

As long as you don't mind the small screen, lower resolution, and reliance on AF-S lenses the only real drawback of the D40 is the near complete lack of control buttons on the back. Now that I'm used to being able to change white balance, exposure, ISO, etc. with just a few presses I would hate to go back to dealing with menus for everything. It's a great camera to start with though because you can leave it in full auto mode and still get very good results.

Gary