[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

I have finally sorted out my bluenote piccolo turntable and it is now setup and ready to go.

I've checked out a few cartridges as follows:

Denon dl103 - $215au
Benz Micro Acer - $450au
Bluenote Babele - $600au
Ortofon salsa - $400au

Obviously I'm interested in purchasing the denon due to its lower cost.  I read a review that stated it needed to be matched to a high mass tonearm otherwise the bass will be sloppy and the highs rolled off.  My bluenote b5 tonearm has a mass of 10 grams (I really don't understand what this means).

I'm wondering if the Djago review is correct?  Any suggestions are welcome.

Regards

Rod

[woodsyi]

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/tonearmcartridge.html

Denon dl103 compliance:  5 x 10-6 cm/dyne = low compliance
Bluenote b5 tonearm mass: 10 grams = low

* A tonearm whose effective mass is rated at 10 grams or below is considered low mass (e.g. early SME’s, Grace 747 etc.). A tonearm whose effective mass is rated between 11 and 25 grams is considered moderate mass (e.g. SME 309, IV, IV-Vi, V, Triplanar, Graham). Arms above 25 grams of mass are high mass in nature (Eminent Technology, Dynavector).

* A phono cartridge whose compliance is rated at 12 x l0ˉ6 or below, is considered low compliance. A cartridge whose compliance is rated between 13 x l0ˉ6 and 25 x l0ˉ6 is considered high to very high. Note: Another way of expressing compliance is um/mN. Here a rating of 5 to 10 is considered very low, 10 to 20 is moderate and above 35 is very high.

* Low mass arms mate well with both moderately high and very high compliance phono cartridges.

* Moderate mass tonearms are good companions for moderate to low compliance cartridges.

* If a low compliance cartridge is used with a low mass tonearm, undesirable resonances can occur in the audible range. Mistracking may also be a problem.

* When a high compliance cartridge is mated with a moderate mass tonearm,

[Rocket]

Hi Woodsyi,

Thanks for your help.  Looks like the denon dl103 cartridge is off the list.  It was a great price that I could afford.

I have been able to source a bluenote babele for $450au and it looks like I will go with that.

Regards

Rod

[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

Resurrecting a very old thread of mine.  Well I did buy new parts for the tonearm to repair a problem I had when it was originally shipped (damaged in transit).  I also bought a bluenote babele cartridge which cost me $450US but unfortunately I had no luck with this the cartridge.  It was was a dud because it really accentuated all of the pops and clicks in the vinyl and was way too fussy for me to setup and never sounded as good as cheaper cartridges like the benz micro and denon one's I had used previously.  In frustration I eventually gave the cartridge away to a friend who is thoroughly enjoying it in his acoustic research eb101.

Fast forward 3 years and I'm giving the bluenote piccolo turntable one more try before I go and purchase another one from a different manufacturer.  In 2005 I had to replace the motor in the turntable but unfortunately bluenote redesigned it and when I installed it the belt was above the height of the platter.  I placed a couple of washers between the platter and spindle and it increased the height which meant I could use it again.  Unfortunately this meant the turntable had a bit of a wobble which I never liked.  A friend made a spacer for me using his lathe and the wobble was almost gone when I installed it.  I'm doing it right this time I've bought myself a digital force gauge, ortofon cartridge alignment took, a denon dl103 cartridge (much easier for me to install) and an isoteknik cartridge stabiliser.

I've cleaned the turntable and set it up waiting for the new bits and pieces to arrive.  I'll cross my fingers this time and I'm determined that if the turntable doesn't work to my satisfaction out it goes.  I can't recommend this turntable to anyone because I've had so many niggling issues with it but I will say the customer service from Bluenote has been pretty good.

Wish me luck.

Cheers Rod

[neobop]

Sorry, I don't get it.  This is the same table/arm from '08, but now has a wobble in the platter?  It's almost gone?
Would it be possible to do a little woodwork and lower the motor mount so you could get rid of the shim and hopefully restore the platter/bearing relationship?  Normally, if you want to raise the platter, the bearing has to go with it.  You're disconnecting the bearing from the thrust-plate.  It doesn't matter if the bearing is standard or inverted. 

The 10g arm isn't more appropriate for a low compliance cart now, than it was back then.  Users say optimal arm mass for a 103 is 20-25g.  Maybe you could find a lead spacer.  I have one that weighs 3.3g, and if you get some heavyweight cart mounting screws from Soundsmith you could get the mass up to maybe 16g or so.  That should do it, but you'd probably have to increase the mass of your counterweight.  On the plus side, the 5cu figure quoted above for the 103 is taken at 100Hz.  The 10Hz cu is more like 12 or 13, still low.
Good luck,
neo

[Rocket]

Hi,

The Bluenote Piccolo turntable has an acrylic plinth and woodworking won't work in this case to lower the platter.  The spacer that I had made goes between the plinth and the bearing.  The wobble is very slight and I'm probably making it sound worse than it is.

I did do some research regarding the B5 tonearm and the denon dl103 cartridge.  I've bought an isoteknik stabiliser that is designed for the denon dl103 and it weighs 8 grams and I'm hoping it works okay.









I must sound ignorant when it comes to turntables and I am.  I don't have anyone to rely on locally to help me set the turntable up but I think I can work it out this time.  Anyway, I thought I'd show some photos to better explain what I've done.

Cheers Rod

[neobop]

Rod,
Nice looking table.  You said, "I placed a couple of washers between the platter and spindle".   I misunderstood.
Doesn't matter,  you've got to get rid of the wobble.  It's that big brass washer? 
I can't really see the motor, is there any way you could lower it, so you could get rid of the shim(s)?   Maybe you could rout the plinth, or drill it out entirely and make a custom motor mount or mount it on the underside of the plinth. 

Actually, it's ludicrous that Bluenote can't supply the right motor.  How old is the table, 5 or 6yrs?  It shouldn't be so hard.
Regards,
neo

[Rocket]

Hi Neo,

Initially I placed a couple of washers between the plinth and the bearing to raise the platter to the correct height.  Later, a friend made a spacer for me with tighter specifications and the wobble is near negligible.  I'm reluctant to make modifications to the turntable because I'm not very handy and I know I'll make it worse.

The table was bought in 2003 and I probably have used it for about 100 hours and its been a frustrating time because of a number of minor issues.  Particularly the change in motor. I have tried to get an older model motor but bluenote keep telling me that the new motor is compatible with the older table.  I'm sure they made modifications to the table when they redesigned the motor to prevent this issue.

Anyway, last roll of the dice and if it still gives me trouble I'll keep the tonearm and buy a new deck and install it.

Cheers Rod