What was your fave preamp(s)?

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TheChairGuy

What was your fave preamp(s)?
« on: 25 Nov 2008, 04:37 pm »
I admit it - I am an addict  :oops:

For some (many) audiophools it's speakers and cables....others it's amps, DAC's, CDP's or turntables.

Me? - I'm smitten with the concept of preamps (and running a close second, phono cartridges).  It's not that I have not found good ones, it's just that I keep thinking there are better ones.

I used to stress over my addiction....now I just roll with it hoping to find the holy grail of preamps one day.  In general this is what has worked for me thus far in my journey:

1.  Pairing a solid state preamp (my preferred) with tube amps.  Assuming you have easy driving speakers and tube amps that satisfy, the wonderful colorization of the tube amps will cover over the tendency towards etch in all SS preamps I've ever had here.  I prefer this to the more usual combination of tube preamp and SS (or, Class D) amps.  To each is own  :roll:

2.  Dual mono architecture.  Tho tried mightily, every other effort but dual mono has been 2nd rate to those that were dual mono.  It's more costly to do it this way for the manufacturer, and for you to buy, but the results are generally superior - image is more stable and focused (likely due to superior stereo , less etch and grain,  and less (effectively, no) crosstalk between channels)

In order of relative preference as I experienced them:

1.  Pioneer SX-A9-J - The only dual mono I've ever had that was true dual mono right back to the dual toroids.  This is actually a receiver, but I have not auditioned as such....currently used as an integrated preamp/tuner with (gloroius) phono (MM and MC).

2.  Mitsubishi DA-C20 - An oldie, but a goodie.  30 year old caps and all, it's virtues shine thru.  A first rate tuner is included in the package and the phono section is a fine one (tho the MC side is irregularly loaded at only 10 ohms...too low for most LOMC's and the like)

3.  Revelation Audio Dual Mono -  My first 'real' preamp was a doozy (the matching amp from Stan Warren most definitely was not).  I upgraded some caps to Blackgates, but found it was a little too sharp sounding and preferred the original (tho lower resolution).  The MM phono section is hard to beat for $$$thousands on standalones...tho the overall gain proved to be too high on both line and phono in many instances.  My Dad still owns this one.

4.  Advent 300 - Fully modified by Sound of the Wood.  This is a fine, full featured receiver, marred by the too-high (AM) RF issue for me here snug up against the San Francisco radio towers.  For those in suburban areas, this may be all you need. Fabulously clear, otherwise.

4.  Dynaco PAS-4 - Want a full featured tube preamp for not a whole lotta' cash? - this is a fine one.  MM section is fine, each of the 6 tubes are buffered (tighter bass as a result).  The controls needed cleaning frequently (odd), the build quality wasn't special, but it was really holographic and sounded special.  The bass was a bit 'hollow'...which I have since read was due to inadequate sized rectifier.  Swap out the 4 x 6922's for cheap Svetlana 6n1p's and you'll be singing with this one matched with a beefy Class D or Class A/B amp.

4.  Quicksilver Full Function Preamp - Beautiful build quality and luxurious sound, overbuild power supplies and storage caps.  Mike Sanders, the owner, is always there, too.  A fine preamp the equal to many with higher profile names.  To me, it just sounded a bit 'old-school' languid as tube preamps can....but, some may love that sound and that's quite fine, too.

5. Odyssey Tempest Supreme - Superb build quality and Klaus always there to lend a hand, but I never could coaxe satisfying sound from this (as opposed to their great sounding amps for the money).  Gain is too high...commendably low noise phono section on these....but just not satisfying sound for me.

6. Hafler 915 - When Hafler was still making preamps 15+ years ago, this was their crowning achievement.  Utterly seductive JFET's sounded very tube like.  This was line version, but some had phono.

7. Dynaco PAS-3 - I learned to love what many are unwilling to part with using a tube preamp...a glorious midrange.  This was stock and deathly in need of updates, but opened up a world of new audiophool possibilities to me so long ago.

8. APT-Holman Preamp - I couldn't warm to this one - not sure why, but it was tepid sounding.  The line section was satisfying, but the phono section which has gotten press as an all-time great one, was very low gain and a non-starter for me.  It was fully revamped by Audioproz in MA, so it shoulda' sounded fine, but did not to me. 

9. IRD Purist - I could never warm to this one.  An 'edge' that was never lost, but build quality was commendable. Novel '0' gain feature was helpful....but I preferred the sound with gain as I remember it.

I probably missed a couple along the way which I'll add, and re-order, if I can remember.

Like all things audio, this list is subjective.  My first and over-riding guideline is if I can stand to listen to it for more than an album side (if, so equipped) or 30 minutes with CD.  After that, the rest falls in line.  The above ordering reflects that subjective balance to things.

So, what were your fave and not-so-fave preamps?

John



 

 
« Last Edit: 19 Jan 2009, 03:56 pm by TheChairGuy »

Charles Calkins

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Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #1 on: 25 Nov 2008, 05:03 pm »
John:

  How many years did it take to listen to all this gear? Which one did you keep the longest?

                                                 Cheers
                                                 Charlie

TheChairGuy

Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #2 on: 25 Nov 2008, 05:27 pm »
Hey Charlie,

This was over a course of about 20 years (6 of which my system was packed up and I listened to a Panasonic portable so I could concentrate on marriage, family and profession as I know I am sick  :icon_lol:)

The longest of any listened to consecutively was the Revelation Audio Dual Mono....but, that might've been a function of young and poor than anything else.  As my bank account has expanded over time (fortunately not my waistline, tho) so has my stupidity  :wink:

John

Charles Calkins

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Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #3 on: 25 Nov 2008, 05:54 pm »


The longest of any listened to consecutively was the Revelation Audio Dual Mono....but, that might've been a function of young and poor than anything else.  As my bank account has expanded over time (fortunately not my waistline, tho) so has my stupidity  :wink:

John
[/quote]

Welcome to the stupid club. All of us has been there and done that. I gotcha beat. This will be my 38th year of stupidity!

                                                      Cheers
                                                      Charlie

macrojack

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Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #4 on: 25 Nov 2008, 06:13 pm »
John,

Find a deal on a Rowland Capri with phono. It is compact, dual mono, dead silent, cool running and has a very responsive remote and perhaps the best volume control in the biz. Oh, and it has balanced circuitry and a nice digital readout to indicate SPL.

PMAT

Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #5 on: 25 Nov 2008, 07:48 pm »
Chairdude! I was listening last night to my latest used purchase of amp/preamp by Conrad Johnson. Its ss gear called Sonographe, anyway I started to tinker and put in my Marantz cd player and started to think about changing the pre to tubes. Never thought about going the other way! Now I'm really *#^%ed up. You bastard! Another variable. Time to hit the net again. By the way, the pre i'm using functions really well. 80 db of attenuation and 20 db in gain I think. All in half db steps for left and right channels. No phono though. I like its functionality better than the Rogue 99 and Metis I had here. Maybe the tubes in an amp is just the ticket. I need at least 80 watts though.

TheChairGuy

Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #6 on: 25 Nov 2008, 09:31 pm »
My local genius PMAT - how be ya'?  8)

I totally forgot - I owned a Conrad-Johnson SC26 preamp (I think that was the model number)...it didn't light my fire when I had it 7 years ago or so.  Probably should add that to my listing.

Yeah, the traditional way of pairing tubes and SS is having a tube pre and SS amp.....and that is likely the way if you have a hard-to-drive speakers.  Mine is a cinch, Linaeum Towers, and 50 watt monoblock tube amp more than good to drive them.

Not all tube amps the same either...mine are tube regulated and very high voltage using 6CD6 (TV) sweep tubes.  Snappy bass is the result.

But, I prefer SS preamp and tube amps...once I dialed in that combo a couple years ago I was eternally grateful  :thumb:

John

jhm731

Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #7 on: 25 Nov 2008, 09:44 pm »
Dual mono preamps I've owned and enjoyed:

MFA Venusian
Dennesen JC-80
Rowland Coherence I

whubbard

Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #8 on: 25 Nov 2008, 10:17 pm »
Well shucks. It can't hurt to recommend my pre-amp!
Aspen Gk-1M.

-West

KT

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Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #9 on: 25 Nov 2008, 10:36 pm »
Hi John,

You emailed me a while back regarding what SS preamp I was using with my tube amp. Sorry I never got back to you.

I was, in fact, getting really great results using an old Adcom GFP-565 with an Audio Note Kit One 300B amp, driving a pair of Klipsch Heresies. Even though the combination was somewhat colored, it was in my mind one of the most musical systems I ever listened to music on.

I had replaced the stock Roederstein Resista signal resistors in the pre with the older "good" Holcos. That was the extent of the upgrades to the pre. The amp and speakers also had some mods.

Since then, I bought a Cary SLP-94 (12au7's) which I use to this day. I use(d) it with a combination of either 47 Labs Gaincard or diyparadise Charlize amps. I tried it with a Sun Audio 300B amp, but there was too much tubiness in the sound. A modded Sonic Impact T-amp still had too much of that squeaky clean sound, even with the tubed SLP-94 in the chain.

The Cary assumed markedly different voicings via rolling of signal caps and potentiometers. Right now I run it with a PEC carbon pot and VTV Ultratone caps as interstage caps, and TRT Dynamicaps as output caps. I tried a lot of different cap rolls throughout the last 9 years, and this is what I've settled on. It gives me the lushness of the oil cap, but still with with the speed and dynamics of the Dynamicap. You know when you're system is close to what you desire when you can listen to music and not think that something needs to be changed or improved (even if it could be). It may be on the slightly soft side, but very musical.

As I mentioned before, I used to work in a Manhattan audio boutique a number of years ago, so I had a chance to listen to some good gear. At the time, the stand out preamps were the high-end Conrad Johnsons (the ART and some of the models just below). Those were very musical. We were running CJ's MV-60 power amps with them - I never took to the sound of those MV-60's. We also had the Quicksiver pre, which was a nice pre for the price, but erred on the too warm and soft old-school tube sound.

Since I left, that store picked up the Shindo line. I only heard them play once and only for about half an hour, but they were lovely with what they were playing.

I also have an older Chord preamp that's based on the OPA604 chip. It was good, but wasn't magical in any permutation I set it up in. I took it apart to convert it to OPA627, but burned a difficult trace and set it aside.

I also had a Bottlehead Foreplay v1 tube pre (also 12au7), which with the CS4 constant current source, sounded close to the Cary, but not quite as lucid. Good value on a pre, though, and a sure winner for the price.

I also ran Dave Slagles autoformers, and that sounded great, but ultimately not enough of the lucidity that tubes give. Just lacking a little bit of life and drive. Not enough of that breathing quality, though close in tonality to tubes.

Next up is to finish my old almost done Pass DIY Bride of Zen pre, my half-finished-many-years-ago Aunt Corey BUF-03 passive pre, my S&B transformer-based pre, my Diego Nardi AudioNote Italia WOT output transformer preamp from Sound Practices #10 (which I have the transformers for), and my Ultratone output transformer preamp from Electraprint Audio (which I also have the transformers for) .

I'm never going to finish these projects, am I?

But I know what you mean about being interested in preamps.

Best,
KT

P.S. A short time ago I upgraded the chips in the GFP-565 to OPA627 and BUF634, but don't think I set up the power supply right - sounds kind of hard and analytical at the moment.









PMAT

Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #10 on: 25 Nov 2008, 10:45 pm »
KT you just made me feel better about my whole life, thank you.

Imperial

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Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #11 on: 25 Nov 2008, 11:19 pm »

Pre-amps need HUGE psu's!!!
They just start living when there is a almost crazy abundance of power!!!

I'd say a pre need a bigger and more powerfull psu than a poweramp!!! I'm silly? I'm not....

Having a FAAAAAST psu able to kick a lot more compared to what a poweramps would need, if you scale it, seems to be the cat's meow!!

Imperial

Crimson

Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #12 on: 25 Nov 2008, 11:46 pm »
I'm a recovering preamp slut.  :green:

I've used:

Cary SLP-50B
Cary SLP-98L
CJ PV10B
CJ 17-LS
Placette Passive
Channel Islands VPC1
Tact 2.0S
AI Modulus 3
Bottlehead Foreplay
Creek OBH22
Rogue Audio Magnum 66
SF Line 3
AR LS16
MF A3CR
Bryston BP20

and a few others that escape me now. Right now I'm using an AVA T-7 ECR which has been in my system longer than any other preamp (~2 years). I'd like to try a Hovland HP-100 some day.

denjo

Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #13 on: 26 Nov 2008, 12:08 am »
I've only had three preamplifiers throughout my audio journey, a McCormack ALD-1 Rev A (modded by none other than Steve McCormack), the Bent Audio NOH, later replaced with its successor, a Bent Audio TAP TVC. I have since sold the McCormack ALD-1 but the TAP is still with me. The McCormack was a wonderful and highly musical preamplifier. It had a see-through perspex covering that allowed one to see the beautiful circuitry within. Unfortunatley, I was having quite a bit of issues with pops and cracks whenever the TKD stepped attenuator was cranked in detent steps.

The Bent Audio TAP is as transparent as it gets, the hallmark of a TVC. It can recreate lifelike realism with micro details that send goosebumps but has to be properly paired with amplifiers (at least 28 dB and above).

Best Regards
Dennis

TheChairGuy

Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #14 on: 26 Nov 2008, 12:11 am »

Pre-amps need HUGE psu's!!!
They just start living when there is a almost crazy abundance of power!!!

I'd say a pre need a bigger and more powerfull psu than a poweramp!!! I'm silly? I'm not....

Having a FAAAAAST psu able to kick a lot more compared to what a poweramps would need, if you scale it, seems to be the cat's meow!!

Imperial

I hear ya' Imperial.

An audio buddy in San Francisco had me over to his place about a year ago....he had a dual mono Classe (line) preamp playing.  His theory was that CD required a serious step up in power supplies to sound right due to their higher dynamic content.

While I still didn't find CD as musically pleasing as vinyl...his CD playback was outstanding with lots of watts and a massively ballsy preamp at the helm  :thumb:

It's nice to draw you (fellow) preamp sluts outta' the closet with this topic :wink:

John

BillB

Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #15 on: 26 Nov 2008, 12:11 am »
I started my personal craze when I found a used VTL Deluxe at a local audio store. I took it home and was happily blissful for a while. Then the tube rolling started. I now have 28 12at7 for a preamp that uses one.

I then built a single stage burson discrete preamp and it was clean and detailed but sterile.

My latest love is an Aikido 24v linestage that I have shoved into an old case I built for a t-amp. It is a temporary affair with a single in/out but I like it a lot.

I have rolled as many ECC86 as I can find into it and am now using 4 Russian 6n27p and am very happy. When I find another Siemens A-frame I will try a pair of those as well. My other examples are all Holland made (Amperex, GE).

We recently had a shootout with my Aikido, Burson Pre, Manley Shrimp, Odyssey Candela, and the VTL. The Shrimp won out because the Aikido was harsh in the reference system (Odyssey monoblocks and Onix Minis). I don't have that problem at home.

System at home is PC to Aikido to Monarchy SM-70 Pro to Jordan JX92s sealed single drivers and Onix X-sub.




Whitese

Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #16 on: 26 Nov 2008, 12:30 am »
My favourite preamps have been

Berning TF-10
Korneff 6SN7

and Pilot SP-210

ted_b

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Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #17 on: 26 Nov 2008, 01:01 am »
My favorites are the ones I currently have (lazy, I know, but the truth):
Modwright LS 36.5 dual mono 2 box
Bent TAP TVC

But I've had a few that really floated my boat over the years:
Apt Holman
Audio Research SP-10
Audio Research SP-11
Adcom GFP 750
Modwright SWL 9.0 SE


zmanbands

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Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #18 on: 26 Nov 2008, 08:54 am »
An ARC factory updated Audio Research SP 11 with new caps in power supply, a new diode in phono, and new, "positioned tested", tubes from ARC.

zacster

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Re: What was your fave preamp(s)?
« Reply #19 on: 26 Nov 2008, 10:33 am »
Someone else with an Aikido 24v!  Mine is also built into a 'temporary' enclosure going on 2 years now.  You can get NOS Bugle Boy 6GM8 tubes for a fraction of the price of the 6DJ8 version, which is apparently the same tube but at a lower voltage.

The picture of your board and components looks nothing like mine.  I'll have to post a pic.  You must have a different version from Broskie.