Replacing outlets; Cryo'd? Not Cryo'd? What to get...

Double Ugly · « **on:** 24 Nov 2003, 02:24 am »

I've been researching this around the net but don't seem to be getting anywhere.

I plan to replace two outlets and put them on a separate 20-amp circuit. So far I've found $10 hospital grade outlets at Lowes (not cryo'd) and these. I don't know anything about this guy or his product, so I'm a little hesitant to spend 3x the price. Neither qualify as being particularly expensive, but I'm not interested in paying more just because.

I know there are a lot more options out there, but this isn't exactly my area of expertise. Any direction/help/insight with this matter is most appreciated.

DU

bubba966 · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Nov 2003, 02:37 am »

I've had great experiences with the Lowes IG8300RN's you found for $10.

I've not tried any cryo'd outlets yet. Have been told by someone who's ears & opinion I trust that the ACME 20A Cryo'd silver plated outlets are almost a must have system component. But they are $45 each. Which gets expensive when you'd need to buy 13 of them them to fully outfit your entire system, and that's where I'm at. And that's exactly the reason I've not tried any yet. I don't want them to blow away the IG8300RN's I'm using because I don't have $535 for 13 20A ACME's.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Nov 2003, 03:35 am »

Thanks, bubba.

Wow...that's a lot of outlets. If your budget's anything like mine, you definitely made the right choice.

Can you tell me what you difference(s) you heard after installing the Lowes outlets? I'm in a position to pay the difference for a couple of cryo'd jobs, but won't bother if there isn't much to be gained.

Thanks again.

DU

bubba966 · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Nov 2003, 03:53 am »

Well, the 13 of them would be all of the ones in my power conditioners, the one in my stepdown transformer, and the ones in the wall.

What I've experienced with the Eagle IG8300RN's (in my system, and a few of my friends setups) was a much cleaner presentation in both audio & video.

There's less noise in the audio signal. Low end is cleaner & more defined. Details are easier to distinguish, and some details you didn't even know existed show their faces.

For the video it sharpens up the picture a bit. Gives you a bit better colors. And definitely improves black level.

The first IG8300RN I installed simply amazed me. I couldn't believe that a $10 outlet could make such an improvement. It woulda easily cost me $10K's worth of better gear to get the same impact on my setup at the time.

Needless to say I didn't stop with the one outlet. Especially after experiencing the exact same results in different setups. So I started to install them in everything. And everything kept getting better.

If you've only got 2 duplex's to replace, go for the Cryo'd Hubbell's (at least at the wall) as I've heard from waaaay to many different people that cryo'ing power cables & power connections makes a big difference.

Then if you've got power conditioners or something else that's got an AC duplex in it use the Eagle's if you don't care to spend more on the Cryo'd Hubbells.

The one thing I feel is very important with whatever outlet you use is the grip. The better the grip, the less micro-arching you'll experience between the plug & outlet. Micro-arching is said to introduce HF interference into an AC line. Less arching means less crap inroduced into the power. So you're not really cleaning up the signal. You're just lessening the amount of crap that was being introduced into the signal.

And that's why I feel that a 20A hospital grade outlet is the only way to go. Those things have the grip of death on any plug you manage to force in. And I do mean force in. You'll see for yourself when you install yours...

Throw a 20A hospital grade in and you won't be dissappointed. Can't say I cared for a 20A industrial outlet though. The grip isn't the same, and neither are the results.

byteme · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Nov 2003, 04:02 am »

Double,

A couple months back I was doing similar research, and like bubba, I couldn't stomach the high price or actually even buy into the cryo thing at the time. However, I found a "deal" on the same ones in the link, from Virtual Dynamics - deep cryo'd 20A outlets. Got them for $29.95 each, shipped free. Bought 5, 2 for the wall, 2 for my 6 amp Powervar and 1 for my 2 amp Oneac. I couldn't believe the difference when I put them in. Noticably quieter and blacker, music was more dynamic. Based on the results and effectiveness of the Powervar / Oneac stuff I sold a couple other line conditioners (Vans Evers, Brickwall) and came out a couple hundred ahead.

I would do it again without question. I don't know if Virtual Dynamics still has that special on the outlets or not, maybe Mr. Porter will do a better deal if you buy a few at once. Although for the $6 extra for each it's still a deal.

Another option I was considering was finding a source for those Hubbel outlets myself and sending them to Cryotweaks for Cryo'ing myself. The added benefit to that would have been to get some tubes and power cords cryo'd too.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Nov 2003, 04:26 am »

bubba-
Thanks again, man. I appreciate you taking the time to write all that. It's exactly what I needed to know. Shoot, maybe you can meet me in the Home Theater circle later on and clue me in on what component cables to get for my back-ordered Sammy HLN567W!

byteme-
Thanks for the additional input. I'll take a look at the link and see what I can find, but you're right in that $6 doesn't make much difference. I'm not sure what else I'm going to do WRT power conditioning. I think Nathan @ Eighth Nerve is working on some Oneac stuff for me that'll suffice until such time I can afford a BPT 3.5 Sig.

Thanks to both of you again for your assistance. Seems you both believe the cryo'd outlets are worth it, and since I have only the two, I can afford to go that route. Now if I can get the friggin' electrician to call me back, I'll get the dedicated circuit installed this week, too.

DU

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Nov 2003, 06:14 am »

DoubleUgly,

I got a bunch of the $10 Lowe's/Eagle and a few PS Audio $50.00 ones...it's a nice tweek for $10, can't say I hear a thing different for the $40.00 per outlet for PS Audio.

Haven't tried cryo jobbers, but can vouch (with Bubba) on the neat orange hospital grade outlets from Lowe's.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Nov 2003, 06:23 am »

Quote from: TheChairGuy

DoubleUgly,

I got a bunch of the $10 Lowe's/Eagle and a few PS Audio $50.00 ones...it's a nice tweek for $10, can't say I hear a thing different for the $40.00 per outlet for PS Audio.

Haven't tried cryo jobbers, but can vouch (with Bubba) on the neat orange hospital grade outlets from Lowe's.

Thanks for the input, Chair Guy. Sounds like those little orange deals are quite the bargain. Maybe I'll get one of each and A/B 'em. I'd like to hear the cryo difference (if any).

DU

JLM · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Nov 2003, 11:19 am »

I inspect hospitals (where we require hospital grade electrical convenience receptacles) and after check thousands I can tell you that those babys do grip! But for even better grip try to get red ones (the only difference is supposed to be the color to designate for use on emergency generator backed up circuits, but my experience is that they usually grip even better).

Be careful to install them and their box securely (I've pulled some right out of the wall when trying to unplug from them and many wiggle quite badly).

I've heard that the primary difference between hospital grade and other grades is the factory inspection process they go through is tougher (due to medically related liabilities you know).

The quoted prices below for cryo'd hospital grade electrical convenience receptacles sound very good.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Nov 2003, 02:30 pm »

Thanks again to everyone for responding to my questions. Due to your insight and suggestions, I've emailed Mr. Porter about purchasing 2 of his cryo'd outlets.

DU

Lak · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Nov 2003, 04:13 pm »

I have spent two years testing different outlets (both regular and cryo'd) in my dedicated listening room, equipped with a sub-panel feeding six separate 20 amp circuits and outlets. The AC is filtered and cleaned by two 5 KVA isolation transformers.
Other than some gold plated outlets, which should never be cryo'd because it will not improve performance, it my tend to degrade sound (IMO). I think you're better off with any cryo'd outlet. After an initial break-in time (better to break in outside of your system with a refrigerator or freezer two/three weeks) you will hear increased dynamics in the bass, mids, and highs. Micro-details should also become more apparent.
It makes no difference to me what brand outlet you purchase, however I recommend that it's cryo'd at least 24 hours @ -300.
Here is a review I wrote that explains a bit more of the details:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?raccs&1065488253&openfrom&1&4#1

jcoat007 · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Nov 2003, 04:29 pm »

I bought the P&S 5352-W and had them Cryo-Treated myself at www.cryogenicsinternational.com

You can find the P&S 5352-W here:

http://www.electricaldeals.com/html/search.php3?column=CartitDesc&search=pass+%26+seymour

The P&S 5352 is the base for the Acme plugs. Acme does their magic with Nickel plating, cryo-treating etc... and then charges $45/each.

In fact, I have some extras if you are interested. I bought 20 of them and only used about 10.

Steve

Double Ugly · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Nov 2003, 06:21 pm »

Quote from: Lak

It makes no difference to me what brand outlet you purchase, however I recommend that it's cryo'd at least 24 hours @ -300.
Here is a review I wrote that explains a bit more of the details:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?raccs&1065488253&openfrom&1&4#1

Yeah, I read your review before I wrote Mr. Porter. Combined with the other feedback and reviews offered, giving the Porter outlets a try seems a no-brainer. Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

Quote from: jcoat007

In fact, I have some extras if you are interested. I bought 20 of them and only used about 10.

Steve

Thanks Steve, but I've already begun the process with Mr. Porter. I do appreciate the info and offer, though.

Thanks again, everyone. I think the outlet replacement questions are answered. Your comments have been very educational.

DU

ABEX · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Nov 2003, 12:36 am »

Bubba:
Can't you just buy the outlets and send them off to be cryo'd for a small charge?

How much are the Outlets apiece?

Lak · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Nov 2003, 03:53 am »

Be very careful when you send anything out to be cryo’d

Make certain the cryo is for at least 24 hours at -300 or greater. Some labs only cryo for a shorter period of time and that will minimize the results

Also there is a difference between deep immersion and vapor cryo.
Many labs charge a fee including so much per item.
Keep your eyes open and ask questions

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Nov 2003, 08:14 am »

Quote from: jcoat007

I bought the P&S 5352-W and had them Cryo-Treated myself...
Steve

I've seen local electricians using Pass & Seymour products on jobsites; anyone interested in them might check out electrical supply stores (rather than Lowe's/HD).