[Rob Babcock]

I've been checking your system out and I wonder, have you done much room treatment?  The reason I ask is that my bedroom is almost identical in size, although my ceilings are 8.5' high and the walls are plaster.  I'm planning on some 8th Nerve stuff (probably around Xmas time), some foam & some DIY fiberglass panels to try to tame the sound.  I'm curious how you've crammed 7.1 into that size a room, too.

Do you have bass problems?  My square room makes getting the bass right a bit tricky, although I'm only aiming for good sound in one chair.

I can now see why you can get by with a TV that small, though!

[bubba966]

Nope, no treatments yet.

At VSAC I experienced exactly what treatments can do in the Bolder Cables room. Wayne had a bunch of 8th Nerve stuff up in the room, and it was one of the only rooms I thought that sounded really good. I was also there after he'd taken everything down. What a difference the 8th Nerve treatments made! He then told me I shouldn't buy anything else from him before I got any 8th Nerve treatments. That room treatments would be better $ spent than buying new cables. And he doesn't even sell the stuff!

I can't say that I have any really noticeable bass problems. I might have some, but they're not glaring problems. Someday I wouldn't mind trying to EQ my subs. Though I've no real clue how I should go about that...

If you wanna know how all 9 speakers are crammed into such a little space, ask Woodsea. He's been over here before (and should stop by again before he leaves the area, you listening Eric? ).

[Rob Babcock]

My main rig is in a much better sounding room, much larger with some diffusion & absorption, good basic shape, etc.  I've PM'ed the 8th Nerve guys for some advice but I haven't sent them the measurements yet.  I'll probably eventually buy treatments for both rooms.

I use a parametric eq for my subs in the main rig, and it makes a huge difference in bass quality.  Even non gearheads who heard my rig before and after noticed the improvements.  I could still use some bass traps, but I'm fairly happy with the bass now.

As for eq'ing, a good test disc & rat shack SPL meter is very handy.  I have AVIA & the 3 disc Stereophile CD set.  Eventually I'd like to get some computer testing stuff with a calibrated mic.  But for now, I use test tones & the SPL meter to graph the response (and I plot it on graph paper), then I adjust with my parametric eq, then measure & plot again.  Then I play some music and/or a bit of a DVD, then I start again.  Repeat until you either get a pretty good curve or go insane!

[bubba966]

As for eq'ing, a good test disc & rat shack SPL meter is very handy. I have AVIA & the 3 disc Stereophile CD set. Eventually I'd like to get some computer testing stuff with a calibrated mic. But for now, I use test tones & the SPL meter to graph the response (and I plot it on graph paper), then I adjust with my parametric eq, then measure & plot again. Then I play some music and/or a bit of a DVD, then I start again. Repeat until you either get a pretty good curve or go insane!

Hmm, I've got the SPL meter, and AVIA & VE discs. Soon to pick up the DVE disc. Can't say I've used the AVIA disc yet. Got used to VE before I bought the AVIA disc, and haven't bothered with the AVIA disc yet.

What EQ are you using?

[Rob Babcock]

I'm using a Behring DSP-1124.  Very nice for this app.  It has many other functions, but I use only the multiband parametric eq function.  As a rule, I only require 2 or three bands (you could program ten, if I remember correctly), but one nice feature is the ability to program ten different settings.  This lets you create several different curves and compare them easily.  Alterenately, you could have one eq curve for music and one for movies.

Or in your case, one setting for action movies, one for comedies, one for dramas, one for...

One note:  it only has TRS & XLR inputs, so you need special cables or adapters.  No biggie, though.

[bubba966]

Or in your case, one setting for action movies, one for comedies, one for dramas, one for...

 

One note: it only has TRS & XLR inputs, so you need special cables or adapters. No biggie, though.

TRS? Is that the proper name for those 1/4" pro audio plugs?

Shouldn't be too big of a hassle. I've not had the sub cables I want built yet. So I should be able to easily have then built for the application. Glad you mentioned that it doesn't use RCA's...

[Rob Babcock]

TRS= Tip Ring Sleeve.  Yeah, this is a 1/4 jack.

The Behringer I have is digital (all signals are converted to digital for manipulation, then output back out as analog).  You probably wouldn't want to use it full range but between the subwoofer output and the sub.

The 1124 is nice because it has keys & can store settings, but Behringer makes a 5 band analog type model for half the price.  The 1124 is already pretty cheap ($400 msrp, but I got mine from Lentines for $150, and I think it's cheaper now), but you can buy the other one (can't remember model) for $75 or so.  NathanM had a couple of them he was offering for sale for $50 each a while back, and he might still have one.

I've got some cables with RCA on one end and 1/4" on the other, as well as some that have RCA/XLR.  I'm sure Wayne could make some much nicer ones- mine are cheapo's, but I'm sure you wouldn't gian a hell of a lot by spending a bunch of $ here.  But I'll readily admit to not being a True Believer in the Power Of Expensive Cables.

[bubba966]

This what you're talking about? http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=2415&highlight=

If it'd do the trick, and Nathan still has them, sounds like I should pick one (or both) up.

So now the next big question, would it be a good idea to run one EQ for both subs on the LFE out from my receiver? Or would it work better with one for each sub?

The subs are the same model, and they're stacked in the corner. They're both level matched to each other (that's a bitch to do), so I can't really see why I'd need to of them. Unless I'm missing something...

And yeah, I'd have Wayne build me the cables. They'd be decent cables, not terrribly expensive though as I can't see spending huge $ for a sub cable. I honestly don't find his cables to be expensive. I've tried DIY, and didn't find the $ savings to be worth my time ( & hassle). I'd rather just let a pro handle it.

[Rob Babcock]

Yeah, that's the unit.  I use one eq for both subs, and I don't think you'd need two if they're sitting together.  Sure, it might give you some flexibility down the road, but I'd just use a splitter if necessary (assuming your subs are powered).

The nice thing about parametric eq, as opposed to graphic eq, is the ability to control not just the amplitude of boost or cut, but also the center frequency and bandwith.  For example, if you have a booming room mode right at 60hz, you can program a notch filter to level that freq with minimal impact on the surrounding freqs.  The only thing you can really do is knock peaks down; dips are usually impossible to correct and it's normally pointless to try- you'll only waste amp power or blow something up.  Peaks are far more obtrusive, anyway.

I thought my bass was pretty good, but I was shocked when switching the eq in and out just how much better it sounded with the Behringer in the loop.

Come to think of it, I've been meaning to reprogram mine:  I've made lots of changes to my system & room since I set it up originally.  Well, looks like I've got plenty of time!

[Woodsea]

You know, Brian I was thinking the same thing!  I could bring the only dvd-A  I have (Metallica "Black Album" ).  Since you mentioned that you did not have one in your collection and was enquiring in another thread.    The thing rocks thru my X-box      Will have to get that cheap Pioneer  uni player soon.

[bubba966]

You know, Brian I was thinking the same thing!  I could bring the only dvd-A  I have (Metallica "Black Album" ).  Since you mentioned that you did not have one in your collection and was enquiring in another thread.

Well, come on up!

You wouldn't happen to have 3 identical pairs of IC's woulda 'ya? I think I might have 3 identical pairs of AQ IC's, but I'm not sure. Then I could at least hear what a DVD-A sounds like through my AX10.

And maybe this time we can do a little more in depth playing around with my gear. Though it won't be the same this time as my both my DVDP & digital have changed since you were last here.

[Rob Babcock]

I'm curious, too, how your Pioneer sounds.  The Black Album isn't one of the better examples of DVD-A, but "Enter Sandman" is extremely cool in 5.1.

[bubba966]

Hmmm, I wonder if that's the same album Danny Ritchie played for me at VSAC? I wanna say it is, but I'm not that familiar with all of Metallica's recordings.

But it was awesome to hear Metallica sound that good on Danny's setup. I've never heard Metallica sound so good before. 'course I've only ever heard them on the radio or MTV.

Guess this means I might actually have to break the seal on my manual for the AX10 so I can figure out how to set the damn thing up for DVD-A...

[Rob Babcock]

I saw them live twice, back in the day.  Sure sounded good then.  But I suppose you mean on a recording.  

To get better sound than they really sound live, well, there's only one rig on Earth that can do that!  

[bubba966]

Yeah I mean on the recording. You oughta be able to figure out that as I've never bought a single audio only piece of software that I've not been to any live performances...  

To get better sound than they really sound live, well, there's only one rig on Earth that can do that!  

As I don't have the budget for RM/X's, I guess I won't be hearing them "better than live"