Why do certain changes make me question my sanity?

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Tyson

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Why do certain changes make me question my sanity?
« on: 23 Nov 2008, 09:22 pm »
Ever notice that you make a change in your system (even a small one), and that not only is there a change in sound, but it's often a change in a direction you were not expecting?

For example, I got tired of my cheap electrical outlets on the wall being so loose that I literally had to worry about my heavy power cables falling out due to gravity.  So, off to home depot and a new industrial grade leviton is installed installed in 10 minutes.  I expected not much change in sound, at most maybe a little better clarity due to better electrical contact (grip) on the power cord prongs.  Instead it sounded AWFUL.  Everything was bright and hashy for at least 2 days, and settled down a bit on the 3rd (today).  WTF?  Am I crazy?  Do I really hear these things, or are the all in my head?  And if they are in my head, why are the often the opposite of what I was expecting?

Same thing happened with my new BPT 2.5.  I figured great, all the outlets are internally isolated and filtered from each other.  Plug everything in, it sounds like crap.  Nothing I did could get the system to sound good again.  WTF?  Did I just waste a bunch of money on this thing?  Wouldn't be the first time something did not work well for me.  But, on a lark today I pulled all my non-audio plugs out of the BPT (things like my laptop, several hard drives, remote control rechargers, etc...) and plugged them into a different outlet a few feet away.  Suddenly, sound was good again.  WTF?  How can pulling them out of the BPT have that affect?  Isn't it by design supposed to be able to handle anything being plugged into it?

Anyway, this is just the latest round of experiences like this for me, just wondering if anyone else had ever experienced the same thing. 

Wayner

Re: Why do certain changes make me question my sanity?
« Reply #1 on: 23 Nov 2008, 10:02 pm »
All devices that run on AC run the gamete from good designed power supply to bad. Big power amps and smallish preamps tend to not like being plugged into the same outlet as there can be an influence of one power supply on another. In my studio, I probably have 9 duplexes and 12 single outlets on a wall strip. These outlets are on 3 separate circuits. The power amps are on one, preamps, turntables, cd players and tuners on on another (along with the laptop) and the other outlets are for other non-musical items.

That may not explain everything, but I hope you see where I am coming from. I do not have any line conditioners nor do I want any. My dimmers (for lights) are on another circuit altogether. Eventually all of this stuff ends up in your electrical box and the only thing separating a possible noise source is wire length!

As far as the outlet making a difference in sound....well, I can tell the difference from day to day just by the barometric pressure and humidity in the room. whether they are affecting my equipment or me is a great debate.

Wayner

Tyson

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Re: Why do certain changes make me question my sanity?
« Reply #2 on: 23 Nov 2008, 11:45 pm »
Yeah, but an outlet?  Making a change in sound quality?  Seems insane.  But, there it is.

Scott F.

Re: Why do certain changes make me question my sanity?
« Reply #3 on: 23 Nov 2008, 11:56 pm »
But, on a lark today I pulled all my non-audio plugs out of the BPT (things like my laptop, several hard drives, remote control rechargers, etc...) and plugged them into a different outlet a few feet away.  Suddenly, sound was good again.  WTF?  How can pulling them out of the BPT have that affect?  Isn't it by design supposed to be able to handle anything being plugged into it?

Tyson,

There is a high likelihood that each of those power supplies are switching style power supplies. If that is the case, each of them (generally speaking) are quite cheaply made and in turn dump all kinds of noise back onto your mains. Since you had these plugged in downstream of your BPT, you were isolated from your mains within the house but you were dumping all kinds of crap into your audio circuit. Keep in mind, the outlets in a BPT share a simple twisted pair of balanced mains feeds downstream of the balancing transformer. Though Chris does provide a cap across the hot and neutral at each outlet, that isn't enough to filter out the switching noise of those power supplies. Best bet is to keep any non-audio appliances off of your BPT.

As much as many pooh pooh the thought that outlets can make a difference, they do. Good thing is if you find the Levitons a little hard and bright, audiophile outlets can be fairly reasonable (or not depending on the outlet you choose).

Tyson

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Re: Why do certain changes make me question my sanity?
« Reply #4 on: 24 Nov 2008, 12:08 am »
I've got a cryo'd hubble on the way (a porter port, got it from audiogon), pretty cheap compared to the total $$ involved in the rest of my system.  I'm just shocked/amazed at how little things like this can make such a difference.  I think my system before was not really resolving enough to hear this stuff as clearly as I do now, and it's been an interesting couple of months trying to chase down the source of noise in my system (since I got the audio-gd stuff).

BobM

Re: Why do certain changes make me question my sanity?
« Reply #5 on: 24 Nov 2008, 12:17 am »
Back in the day, Bob Crump popsted a lot at Audio Asylum. He recommended very specific Pass & Seymore outlets. He then posted a day by day listing of how these things broke in and what you heard for about a month before they settled in. It was hilarious to think things could go from OK, to great, to sharp, to bass heavy, to just plain rotten, to bliss ... all in an outlet.

Then I bought some and installed them, and experienced it for myself. I don't laugh at these things anymore - break-in is real.

Enjoy (the end result),
Bob

Scott F.

Re: Why do certain changes make me question my sanity?
« Reply #6 on: 24 Nov 2008, 12:45 am »
Hey Tyson,

You hit on a key point, resolution. You are exactly right, when you hit a certain point in system resolution everything seems to make a difference. Just be thankful that you haven't jumped on the SET/HiEff speaker bandwagon. Talk about noises driving you nuts  :roll:

*Scotty*

Re: Why do certain changes make me question my sanity?
« Reply #7 on: 24 Nov 2008, 03:03 am »
I was first clued into improving the sound of my system by changing electrical outlets to 20 amp rated LEVITON DECORA outlets in 1986 by Bill Westerfield. He had done a lot of testing with a milliohmeter and determined that the lowest connection resistance at the wall outlet was achieved with a combination of a Hubble hospital grade cord cap plugged into a Leviton outlet. I changed out the cord caps on the preamp and power amp as well as the wall outlets in the living room and was rewarded with an immediate reduction in grunge and an improvement in the bass. Even my wife who does not participate in the audio hobby remarked that she thought the system sounded better,it was more enjoyable to listen to and asked what I had done and how much money had I spent. I am not sure why lowering the contact resistance at the wall outlet makes an audible improvement but it does and it is a reasonably
cheap thing to do to reap a worth while improvement in sound quality.
Scotty

satfrat

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Re: Why do certain changes make me question my sanity?
« Reply #8 on: 24 Nov 2008, 05:10 am »
Seems as tho I read somewhere that balanced power is to be used for audio components only and it's illegal to do otherwise. :dunno: My personal position is everything in an audio system should be plugged into the BPT so there's no weak links. I've even got my HTPC plugged into the last duplex w/o any downside to the ground noise or sound stage dynamics. But my external hard drives and a standalone burner are on a separate circuit all together. I really never expected to plug the computer into the BPT cuz I have an OneAC UPS power conditioner for it but things just sound better using the BPT instead. It also could be because of all the additional power cleaning devices I also use on all my cabling but it's the end result that counts and that only comes from constant comparsons from doing different things, like Tyson did. :D

Cheers,
Robin