[HerculePirate]

Would really appreciate Photos from the AK Fest from the Visitors.
Stunning HT4 looks....
Wow

Regards

HP

[cujobob]

I got to hear these speakers today at AKfest and really liked them...they look great (though fairly short), too.  The bass didn't do it for me on some tracks so I'm not sure if that was the room, the material, or what exactly...overall very impressed.  My rooms at home are probably too small for this speaker unless Jim and Dennis make one with a smaller bass driver so I could incorporate subs with more tuning options.

The Songtowers looked and sounded great, of course...brought my gf along and she commented that she liked them (rarely says that about anything audio)

What about the bass didn't you like?

I noticed on one or two tracks that it wasn't as dynamic and clean as I'd have preferred, but it very well could have just been the room (or the track).  Jim was smart to get a large room, I went to the Bamberg room expecting to be blown away...and while it did sound good, the room clearly was a limiting factor.

Like I said, the 'HT4' or whatever its to be called, is a very impressive speaker.  Midrange and highs were excellent.  Didn't get a chance to chat with Jim at all...really wanted to know a price. Also want to hear those OB speakers sometime in the future.

[Jeff B.]

I got to hear these speakers today at AKfest and really liked them...they look great (though fairly short), too.  The bass didn't do it for me on some tracks so I'm not sure if that was the room, the material, or what exactly...overall very impressed.  My rooms at home are probably too small for this speaker unless Jim and Dennis make one with a smaller bass driver so I could incorporate subs with more tuning options.

The Songtowers looked and sounded great, of course...brought my gf along and she commented that she liked them (rarely says that about anything audio)

What about the bass didn't you like?

I noticed on one or two tracks that it wasn't as dynamic and clean as I'd have preferred, but it very well could have just been the room (or the track).  Jim was smart to get a large room, I went to the Bamberg room expecting to be blown away...and while it did sound good, the room clearly was a limiting factor.

Like I said, the 'HT4' or whatever its to be called, is a very impressive speaker.  Midrange and highs were excellent.  Didn't get a chance to chat with Jim at all...really wanted to know a price. Also want to hear those OB speakers sometime in the future.

Most of the design of the HT4, including the driver selection and the crossover design, is all Dennis' work. However, I was asked to come up with a bass section that would meet Jim's goal for the speaker. Since we were using a TC Sounds designed 12" woofer with a very high displacement, and needed a low tuning frequency to get the extension desired, I selected a passive radiator design. There's a real reason why many high displacement sub manufacturers also make, use, or recommend passive radiators. It's because it is very difficult to tune to a low frequency, keep the port a reasonable size, and not have a very high air velocity that creates chuffing noise. The passive radiators put this to rest by providing double the displacement of the woofer, and yet the mass tuning allows you to set the tuning frequency as low as you need it.

In this case the tuning frequency is 20.7Hz and the F3 of the speaker is 18Hz. It is a critically damped alignment and the response is ruler flat above 20Hz with no midbass peaking at all. This low F3 (-3dB point) will interact differently with a room than the HT3 will. The slightly higher tuning frequency and F3 of the HT3 may interact with a room to cause you to perceive a slight midbass lift as the bass begins to roll-off below 30Hz. The HT4's low F3 will tend to interact with the room in the pressurization area and you won't perceive any peak in the midbass compared to the deep bass because the low bass will experience a gain due to the room pressurization.

Another advantage the high excursion / high surface area passive radiators have is to deliver very low distortion low bass. We are not used to hearing really low distorion bass with most speakers out there. When you first listen to a very low distortion speaker it may at first sound like something is missing. It's only after you listen to it for a while that you realize that everything is "right", and this is the way it is supposed to sound. I am not saying that the HT3 isn't low distortion, it is. It has the same basic driver design as the HT4's woofer, but it doesn't have quite the extension on the bottom end. Both the HT3 and the HT4 will have much cleaner bass than most other high-end speaker available today though.

Jeff Bagby

[earthbound]

So I hopped on my Goldwing this 45 degree F morning for the 2.5 hour ride to AKfest where I got to hear Salk speakers for the first time. I also got to meet Jim, his wife, and Dennis Murphy. We were in a fairly big conference room so the speakers had lots of space to fill. As I sit here thinking about my impressions of the different speakers I realize that I don't have a clue about how to write a review, so here are just a couple gut impressions.

HT4: way too big and way too expensive. They seemed a little intense to me, as if they should be in an even bigger space and farther away from the listening position. Overall very impressive and detailed, but I actually liked the bass on the HT2-TL better.

HT2-TL: Ahh, my favorite, and the one I have ordered for myself. Very nice clear sound, surprisingly smooth and plentiful bass, and I love that ribbon sound! I guess all those years of wearing earplugs when no one else did are paying off in my old age. There is no doubt that I found and ordered the perfect speaker for me.

ST: Jim had both ribbon and dome versions set up, though not for A-B listening, and I have to say that I did like the ribbon version better. Both sounded great though a little light on bass in the big room. Compared to the HT2-TL the ST seemed to be working harder to keep up, but still very clear and detailed. I guess for half the cost of the HT2-TL you gotta give up something!

I also wandered around and listened to other brands of speakers and equipment but after hearing the Salks I really couldn't get interested. I've been "Salked" and I like it!   

[fsimms]

HT2-TL: Ahh, my favorite, and the one I have ordered for myself. Very nice clear sound, surprisingly smooth and plentiful bass, and I love that ribbon sound! I guess all those years of wearing earplugs when no one else did are paying off in my old age. There is no doubt that I found and ordered the perfect speaker for me.

See! I done toll'd ya!     

Bob

[MichiganMike]

I also had the pleasure of listening to the HT4 at Akfest on Saturday.  I agree that the room acoustics were not ideal and there was a subwoofer in the adjacent room that was at times intrusive. 

The demonstration was in a large room (53'x37'X11' according to data on the Internet for this room) with the HT4 at one end and pairs of HT3, HT2-TL and SongTowers RT at the other end.  There were several rows of chairs facing the speakers at each end.  AVA provided the amps and had a wide range of other equipment on display.  The source while I was there were lossless sound files on a laptop.  IMHO the room set-up was by far the best at Akfest with most other demos held in regular hotel rooms.

The HT4 bass was deep, clean with very good impact in such a large room.  The speakers were able to project deep organ tones in this 2000 square foot room with authority and realism.  The HT4 displayed excellent balance across the frequency range with a wide and deep soundstage.  The dispersion of the HT4 drivers provided an exceptionally wide sweet spot.  These speakers sounded very good even when I stood far off axis.  All the voices and instruments that I heard reproduced by the HT4 sounded very natural with very smooth integration of the drivers.

The woodwork on the HT4 was very impressive.  The color of the finish would not be my first choice, but the craftsmanship was exceptional even give the high standards for Salk speakers.  The bass module was very inert in a knuckle rap test.  It sounded and felt much like hitting a solid block of wood.  I understand that there was some scrambling to get the HT4 ready for the Akfest due to some availability problems with drivers, but I am sure that all that heard them appreciated the extra effort. 

Jim and Mary Salk and Dennis Murphy were very gracious and available to talk to all the audio fans in attendance to answer questions and share their knowledge of speakers and love of fine audio reproduction.  One of the best things about Akfest was the relaxed and unpretentious atmosphere and ability to interact with experts like Jim and Dennis.  At no time while I was there were there more than about 25 people in the room, so it was easy to examine the speakers, to sit in a good location for critical listening with minimal distractions and to find an opportunity to visit.

This was also my first chance to hear the HT2-TL.  These were also very impressive particularly at the price point.  The midrange was sweet and clear and the bass solid.  The HT2-TL lacked the deep bass and some of the ambience and deep soundstage of the HT4 (possibly due to the open back midrange on the HT4?), but the HT2-TL were a clear step up from my SongTowers in low frequencies and ability to fill a large room.  In fact the HT2-TL gives up very little to the HT-3 in my opinion except in bass impact.  I took some small comfort in Dennis Murphy confirming the SongTowers and HT2-TL were voiced to sound similar.

Unfortunately, I had to leave Akfest after only a couple hours due to a problem at home, but the experience was well worth my 2 hour drive each way and the price of admission.     

[earthbound]

Nice review MichiganMike, and a +1 from me, although I'm still stickin' to my story that I like the HT2-TL bass better than the HT4. I also wouldn't expect the type of deep organ bass we heard from the HT4 to come out of the little HT2-TLs either. Wait a sec, the HT2-TL isn't little, it was the tallest speaker in the room! Stand tall and proud my babies!! Anyway, I just thought that the HT2-TL bass was warmer, and maybe that's just more typical of the sound that I'm used to hearing.

The room was fairly busy when Jim played "Fanfare for the Common Man" (I think, I'm not a classical junkie) on the HT4. Those who weren't already seated seemed to all turn and stand at attention behind the chairs facing the HT4s, including me of course. Very impressive crowd control Jim!

Hey, mchuckp, you did a lot of listening to the STs and HT2-TLs. Did you decide what you're going to do yet? You seemed to be dazzled by the HT2-TL. Since you're going to move soon anyway, my fatherly advice is to save up for the HT2-TL and have it delivered after you've settled in your new home. And don't waste that money on typical home improvements like painting, appliances, and stuff!

[AliG]

Where are the PICS???!!?! aa

[DMurphy]

Hi everyone    I got in late from AK fest last night and posted some impressions, but they lasted about 5 minutes.  Apparently AC doesn't allow designers to make some faintly positive remarks about their own work.  Or one of Jim's competitor's hacked into my computer.  So here are 2 objective statements that aren't open to disproof.  1) I was very very pleased with the Beast.  2) The room was freaking huge.  That was great for showcasing lots of designs and avoiding bass overloading (which is an understatement), and hearing the full sound staging properties of the Beast.   But because of ongoing conversation and the vast volume of the room, we often drove the Beasts at incredible levels (which was possible thanks to Jim's super clean 1k per wattage machine) that would melt ear drums in a normal room.   As a result, people fairly near the speakers were receiving first arrival information that was pretty intense.  Ideally (and there was no ideal at the Hotel--Jim had one of the 2 best rooms), I would have preferred to audition them in a much smaller environment with more bass boundary enforcement.  And I will have to disagree a little with my friend Earthbound here.  The Beast was not designed strictly for large venues.  It was meant for normal rooms, and in fact will be happier in a small room than the HT3's.  That's simply a matter of the midbass tuning, which is fuller on the HT3's.  The Beast is absolutely flat down to its subterranean limit.  I'm running my prototypes in a typical downstairs rec room--maybe 400 sq feet--and I don't feel any need for something larger.   I managed to get out and about in the afternoon and check out the show.  I felt a little guilty walking into those tiny rooms and seeing people with great designs jammed up against a wall with people listening 6 feet away.  I heard some very refined little monitors (Nate's speakers and Whiplash Audio), and Phil Bamberg had a beautifully engineered active-passive 3-way that I wish I could have heard in Jim's room.  And lots of super efficient big systems with that wide warm sound that grabs tube types and leaves me a little cold.   Jim's cabinets and his wife Mary provided the visual highlights of the fest, and I enjoyed the banter with Salk Sound owners and, of course, Frank, Jim, and Mary.   It was a long, long day from D.C. to Livonia and back, but at least I didn't go to bed worrying that I had completely messed up.  I might fiddle with a couple of things (like the alternative tweeter settings provided by the top-mounted switch), but it was a pretty satisfying shakedown cruise.

[R Swerdlow]

Dennis

AK Fest photos at this link http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55176.

The guy who took them is someone named Dave who wore an Audioholics shirt.  Says he spoke to you and Jim.

I'm glad to hear how you're happy with the Beast's debut.  I hope Jim was equally pleased.

At the BSO last night, I heard Nelson Fiere play Beethoven's 4th Piano concerto, a really good performance.

Richard

[earthbound]

. . . And I will have to disagree a little with my friend Earthbound here.  The Beast was not designed strictly for large venues.  It was meant for normal rooms, and in fact will be happier in a small room than the HT3's. . . .

That's good to know Dennis, and I'm glad your design goals were met. I personally felt overwhelmed by the HT4's presence and if left to my own devices I probably would have been sitting at the far end of the room, so I assumed that meant that the room should be even larger than it was. I'm used to having a much narrower soundstage at home so the wide spacing threw me off a little. I should refrain, however, from making conclusions based on my own lack of knowledge (I should, but . . .).  ) Great work Dennis, Jim, and all!

[JoshK]

The cabinet work on those HT4s is very impressive!   

[Nuance]

Great info, folks.  I am glad that the HT4's were successful.  I wish I could have been there. 

Congrats to the Salk team!

[jermmd]

I must have missed it but did I read that the MSRP of the HT4's is $14k?

[jtwrace]

Is the bass driver (12") a Rythmik Audio driver?  Looks like it.

[opnly bafld]

Is the bass driver (12") a Rythmik Audio driver?  Looks like it.

A few quick answers (don't have time for all the details - those will come later in a "name this speaker" thread.

Yes, the midrange is a FAL.  The tweeter is a custom RAAL. This tweeter has some very unique features, but I am under a non-disclosure agreement so I can't comment too much.  The woofer section has one 12" "TC" driver and two 12" passives.  This particular pair of cabinets was fashioned from trans-laminated bamboo.  The woofer walls are 2" thick with internal bracing. The cabinets are in two sections and weigh in at 155 pounds.

- Jim

[Nuance]

Yes, it's a TC 12".  But here's my question: didn't TC Sounds go out of business?  If so, I assume there is a nice stock-pile of 12" drivers somewhere at the Salk facility? 

[mchuckp]

Hey, mchuckp, you did a lot of listening to the STs and HT2-TLs. Did you decide what you're going to do yet? You seemed to be dazzled by the HT2-TL. Since you're going to move soon anyway, my fatherly advice is to save up for the HT2-TL and have it delivered after you've settled in your new home. And don't waste that money on typical home improvements like painting, appliances, and stuff!

Hey everyone!  Thought I'd give you a rookie perspective.  This is the first time I've ever been to any sort of audio show and hear gear of this caliber.  There was A LOT of impressive stuff going on.  Maybe after more years of experience I can complain about room acoustics and give more analytical write ups but for now, gonna keep it simple.  For someone who has been reading about Salk speakers WAY TOO LONG and have never heard them at all, here is what I got out of my first listening.

I came and went out of the Salk/AVA room a number of times over 2 days.  I hope I didn't annoy Jim/Dennis and the gang too much.  I wanted to keep coming back and hear different things and keep getting a perspective compared to other things I heard at the show.

My first listen was early afternoon on Saturday.  Jim was firing up the HT4's at that time.  All I can say was WOAH!  Honestly, for a newcomer like me who'd never heard gear like this it was quite a treat.  My rookie ears felt they sounded perfect from top to bottom.  As others have said the room was quite big and I'm sure the bass would have been much different in a smaller setting, but what impressed me was that it was so fluid as it went low.  Very natural.  The comments about the off-axis listening being excellent is very true.  I walked all over and didn't notice a change.  Jim commented to me that the FAL driver is excellent for that.  During my visit, I had a chat with Jim about what I was looking for and that I was mostly debating between STs and the HT2-TLs.

I left after a while as it was already mid afternoon and I'd barely seen the show.  I stopped back a while later and the HT4's were on but shortly after there was a request for the STs (dome).  So I sat and listened to those for a while.  Very impressive!  Extremely good midrange as everyone already knows.  I couldn't believe how great vocals sounded.  The big room and following the HT4's, it was easy to notice the lows were not going nearly as deep.  After listening for a while, Jim approached me and said "you want to hear the STs vs the HT2-TLs?".  I was impressed with all the folks coming and going that he remembered me from a earlier and recalled what we had talked about.  He turned on the STRTs first to get a comparison to the STs we just listened to.  I don't know if it was in my head, different source material, or if this is how RTs sound, but I felt that vocals seemed more "natural", "real", "organic".  Take your word of the day.  Would I hear this at home?  Not sure.  Maybe it is the great front end from AVA or maybe it is strictly the RT.  Either way I liked it.  I listened to the STRTs for probably 20 minutes are so with a number of tracks.  Jim played The Beatles-Because from LOVE (the version with just vocal tracks).  WOW!  It seriously sounded like the fab 4 was in the room.  I've listened to the same cut at home when I had my Aperion 633t's and they are not even close to the same league.

It was right after this that Jim switched the speaker cables to the HT2-TLs.  Before I give my impression I want to tell you that I HONESTLY hoped the difference was minimal to make my decision to spend less money easy.  Well that wasn't the case.  The low end really opened up and the sound I heard in the mids and highs were taken to another level.  The clarity was just amazing bottom to top. Jim played Sarah McLachlan's Angel and it was eerie how real it sounded.   So my hope was for naught.  I can honestly say that the HT2-TLs ARE a better speaker than the ST dome or RT.  And they should be for twice the price!

I left again a bit later and stop back about a half hour before the end of the show for the day.  When I walked in the ST (dome) was playing.  Someone wanted to hear the Archos so they got hooked up.  They sounded very good BUT someone brought there own source material and to me it wasn't the best recording.  I left not overly impressed by it but feel it wasn't the speaker, just someone's CD.

I stopped back on Sunday for one last visit and heard some more ST (dome) and the HT4.  I won't rehash my impressions again as they were unchanged.

In conclusion:
I will leave the Archos out of the discussion as I did not get a good demo of them.  I also did not hear the HT3 over the weekend.  That being said, I think a lot of what I've been reading by all of you is spot on.  As you go up in price on Salk speakers, they ARE better.  However, each person has to decide what they can live with and what they can afford and how much each step up is worth it to them.  All of us have different budgets and are willing to pay different amounts for said upgrades.  Is the HT2-TL twice the speaker of the ST?  NO.  Is it better?  DEFINITELY.  Is the HT4 three times the speaker of the HT2-TL?  NO.  Is it better?  DEFINITELY.

What am I going to do?
Well, that is a tough one.  At the show and upon leaving Sunday, I was convinced that I HAD to have the HT2-TLs.  I loved the clarity across the full range and I really enjoyed the added depth compared to the RT.  Then on my 4 hr drive home, my conundrum came rushing back to me that my house in the market, I work out of town 4 days a week, and I'm moving to OR in the fall.  Sigh.....  As much as I REALLY want to call Jim and tell him to start building, I really think the smart thing for me is to continue to drive myself crazy and wait until we buy a house and know exactly what I'm working with.  I may have a big room, small room, or just a weird room.  I'm also hoping that I can have 2 set ups after I move.  One that is music only and one that is mainly TV with some music.  If so, how big is each room?  These are the things that are killing me and the reason I think I need to continue my self punishment.  In the right space, I think the HT2-TLs would make me one happy camper.  However, I'm not discounting the ST yet either as they are excellent speakers and I'm sure the low end is much better in typical room.  I don't think that HUGE room did them justice.  I'm actually considering foregoing the HT2-TL route and getting some HT1's and STs for 2 rooms for close to the same price as the HT2-TLs.  Who knows.

I may change my mind again and order something soon, but if not I hope to continue to harass you all in the forums and Jim on the phone as I continue to explore scenarios and research veneers and pray that we sell out house soon and can start shopping for our next house this summer.

Jim, Dennis, your crew, and everyone at AVA thank you for a wonderful weekend.  It will go down as quite a memorable experience for me and I hope to chat with all you later and especially hope to have a set up down the road that is at least somewhat close to what I heard over the last few days.

Thanks for listening!

Mike
"mchuckp"

[mchuckp]

I must have missed it but did I read that the MSRP of the HT4's is $14k?

Jim commented at the show that he's estimating around $15K.  Sounded like he hasn't totally worked it out yet.

[jbtrio]

Hi Jim or Dennis,

 Impressive design and speaker!


This is your statement speaker. Curious, if you are using different highend caps in the crossovers ( Duelund, V-caps, Mundorf, etc.) then the upgraded Sonicaps I have in my HT-3's?

Good Luck,

Joe