[msm_1]

Hi

I've been told that separating the upper unit from the bass unit on my original VR-4's is a tweak to help get the best setup.

What is the best parts to use? Cones, Balls etc

Thanks

Mike

[blownrx7]

I'd like to hear opinions on this as well.  I know some have used damping material between the units while others have used cones or ???

[mfsoa]

I preferred this (sorbothane):

"Selector Pack— Includes five plain-back 1 1/2" x 3" x   5/32" thick oval pieces, one of each durometer (30 OO, 40 OO, 50 OO, 60 OO, and 70 OO).  8514K2  Per Pkg. $11.45" (from Mcmaster-Carr)

to the stock cones on my 4JRs. I thought they had better integration of mids to bass, allowing the speaker to speak with one voice.

Buy two packs of 5 and use 1 pack per speaker. If you don't like, you're not out too much $$ or use them under something else.

-Mike

[Big Red Machine]

Has anybody ever tried completey isolating the top portion from the woofer cabinet - like suspending it, or cantilevering it above the other so it has zero direct coupling?

[mfsoa]

BRM-
I've often thought of that - Put the mid/tweet cab on a stand and put the bass cabinets where they'd sound best - Treat the thing like a sub/sat system, which it essentially is.

Haven't tried this but I don't see why this couldn't be an improvement.

-Mike

[Big Red Machine]

Do we know what audible improvements to expect with this separation?  I wonder if the VSA folks have any testing experience and can enlighten us.

[Delacroix]

I know that some owners have recommended using Herbie's Big Fat Dots for separation - you can find details here (they even have a Von S special, testimony to the power of marketing, purchasing or suggestion, your call): http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/bigfat.htm

I never thought of full separation of the woofer and mid/tweeter section in different places....interesting idea but the woofer section is not a sub-woofer......

[es347]

The success of isolating the bass module from the mid-tweeter module would depend on the omnidirectional nature of bass frequencies.  If the cutoff frequency of the low pass of the bass drivers is much above 100 hz, it may not be omnidirectional and as such would belong right where Albert has placed it.  No more satellite/subwoofer systems for me thank you.  Been there, done that.

[satfrat]

Being an Audiopoint fan and a fan of cones in general over coupling, i would recommend Audiopoints smallest cone to be used with the 4jr's. I would expect a more defined sound stage with sharper imaging when using audiopoints over rubber or gel. At least that's what I discovered in my system. I wish I had brought a set to mfsoa's RAVE,,, next time.



Cheers,
Robin

[blownrx7]

I preferred this (sorbothane):
"Selector Pack— Includes five plain-back 1 1/2" x 3" x   5/32" thick oval pieces, one of each durometer (30 OO, 40 OO, 50 OO, 60 OO, and 70 OO).  8514K2  Per Pkg. $11.45" (from Mcmaster-Carr)
to the stock cones on my 4JRs. I thought they had better integration of mids to bass, allowing the speaker to speak with one voice.
Buy two packs of 5 and use 1 pack per speaker. If you don't like, you're not out too much $$ or use them under something else.
-Mike

Mike,
Which durometer did you use? Are you saying you used all of them?
  I would think that one particular durometer would work best and buy just that one type.
TIA

[mfsoa]

I used them all, 5 different durometers per speaker. Maybe the range of compliances will spread out any resonances, I don't know.

Short of buying 10 sample packs and trying to tell the difference between each durometer, which would probably be difficult and maddening, I just used what I got 

-Mike

[JackD201]

Methinks that whatever is tried the gap between M/T modules should remain the same so as not to affect propagation. Wider or narrower gaps may cause filtering or worse yet bring back the lobbing that was carefully engineered out.

The VR-9s don't use spikes. Now I wonder what the big round pucks are and if they would work on the other models as well.  aa

[Big Red Machine]

Ever read up on how Verity does theirs?  Thick Aluminum plate sandwiched between Sorbothane pieces.  They say the Aluminum does the trick.

[JackD201]

Ever read up on how Verity does theirs?  Thick Aluminum plate sandwiched between Sorbothane pieces.  They say the Aluminum does the trick.

Something like symposium svelte shelfs? Hmmmmmm....... this has got possibilities. I've heard harbeth bookshelves with sveltes between them and their stands and their definitely was an improvement in clarity.

One thing for sure is that there will be a difference in sound. I guess only the owner can really determine if the change was a good or a bad one within the context of the complete systems level of synergy.

[Big Red Machine]

Interesting

http://www.symposiumusa.com/svelte.html

[JackD201]

Rumor has it that the owner of a very well renowned audiophile record label had bearing couplers fit into his 6 figure reference loudspeakers.   It entailed taking a drill to the gorgeously finished cabinets. The guy he hired to do the job ( a rather famous modder and designer) must have been sweating buckets with the powertool in hand 

[disco]

The symposium svelt shelf would not be a good idea as it would fill the space between head unit and bass cabinet. I talked to Albert about this space and he said that it is part of the speaker design. And that the space between the bass and head units in the VR4 JR, SR, 7 & and 9 allow sound to envelope the head and work with the rear tweeters to give these speakers their open, airy sound. I do have a customer that used aftermarket lifters on his VR4 SR MKI's, but I did not hear a big difference over the stock footers.

[StereoNut]

Quite a ways back, I had asked Paul Garner at VSA about this and he said not to spend any big $$$ on trying to better separate the top & bottom units on the VR4's.  He recommended small (I don't know how many ounces) lead fishing weights that were ever so slightly higher than the gap between the units now, just to get the top unit off of the rubber pads that are on the top of the woofer cabinet from the factory.  He said that if you had to "take a hammer" to the weights to either adjust the height and/or flatten them a bit so they wouldn't roll around, they would work fine.  I can't say I've tried it, but it's a cheap enough tweak to try and if it doesn't improve the sound of the system, you can still go fishin'!    I'd be interested to hear whether anybody has tried this.

[es347]

Quite a ways back, I had asked Paul Garner at VSA about this and he said not to spend any big $$$ on trying to better separate the top & bottom units on the VR4's.  He recommended small (I don't know how many ounces) lead fishing weights that were ever so slightly higher than the gap between the units now, just to get the top unit off of the rubber pads that are on the top of the woofer cabinet from the factory.  He said that if you had to "take a hammer" to the weights to either adjust the height and/or flatten them a bit so they wouldn't roll around, they would work fine.  I can't say I've tried it, but it's a cheap enough tweak to try and if it doesn't improve the sound of the system, you can still go fishin'!    I'd be interested to hear whether anybody has tried this.

My VR4 SR MkIIs have conical rubber "tiptoes" on the upper mid/hi enclosure with tips pointing down.  They are seated in small holes drilled in the top of the lower woofer enclosure.  You apparently have a different arrangement.

[blownrx7]

My VR4 SR MkIIs have conical rubber "tiptoes" on the upper mid/hi enclosure with tips pointing down.  They are seated in small holes drilled in the top of the lower woofer enclosure.  You apparently have a different arrangement.

es347,
Can you provide a photo of this?
TIA