[boead]

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah I know your brother uses a $49 transport and he says it’s just fine.
Well maybe its time to wake up

Reason I don’t bother with separate transports and DAC's is because I found that an all-in-one solution is more cost effective.

[mark funk]

No, the Philips 3140 cost $40. I guess a Philips transport should be ok? I think Philips came up with the CD format also how many CDP and stand alone transports out there are using Philips transports? I have had many CDP and they all sounded bad all most drove me away from HiFi. Then that one day I saw it on Frank's site, a DAC, I did not know what the hell a DAC was! After some reading I put it on the order form. Well, I all ways though CDs sucked and to my suprise is was not the CDs it was the CDPs. Well when my transport breaks down as they do I well go and drop $50 on another Philips and be rocking and rolling the same day, $50 might cover shipping? Oh yes it works and sounds just fine. 

[oneinthepipe]

Reason I don’t bother with separate transports and DAC's is because I found that an all-in-one solution is more cost effective.

What type of CDP are you using, an Arcam?  I have the electronics and speakers for a second system but am lacking a source, and I wouldn't mind having a comparably-sounding source and saving some money.  I paid about $1215.00, including a few dollars for shipping for the DAC, for my Insight DAC ($899.00) and Marantz CD5001 ($299.00), both NIB.  I didn't know that there was an all-in-one CDP with the same sound qualities that would be more cost-effective (i.e., cheaper). 

The only other CD players that I have used in my system were a JoLida JD100A (about $1000.00 retail) and the Marantz CD5001 ($299.00 retail), both of which I also used as a transport for the Insight DAC, but their analog outputs were horrible.  The JoLida, with NOS Amperex tubes, was even worse than the Marantz. 

   

[boead]

Reason I don’t bother with separate transports and DAC's is because I found that an all-in-one solution is more cost effective.

What type of CDP are you using, an Arcam?  I have the electronics and speakers for a second system but am lacking a source, and I wouldn't mind having a comparably-sounding source and saving some money.  I paid about $1215.00, including a few dollars for shipping for the DAC, for my Insight DAC ($899.00) and Marantz CD5001 ($299.00), both NIB.  I didn't know that there was an all-in-one CDP with the same sound qualities that would be more cost-effective (i.e., cheaper). 

The only other CD players that I have used in my system were a JoLida JD100A (about $1000.00 retail) and the Marantz CD5001 ($299.00 retail), both of which I also used as a transport for the Insight DAC, but their analog outputs were horrible.  The JoLida, with NOS Amperex tubes, was even worse than the Marantz. 

The Arcam FMJ I have cost me about $1200 used, it was originally close to $2300 retail. I got to listen to (audition) lots of players up to $4000 and the FMJ 23 was my favorite! No comparison to a Jolida or a Marantz.

[oneinthepipe]

The Arcam FMJ I have cost me about $1200 used, it was originally close to $2300 retail. I got to listen to (audition) lots of players up to $4000 and the FMJ 23 was my favorite! No comparison to a Jolida or a Marantz.

boead:

In hindsight, the JoLida was perhaps my most disappointing audio purchase, except that I didn't realize it until I used it as a transport with my Insight DAC.  Have you auditioned the Insight DAC?  If you were able to compare them, how did the Insight DAC compare to the FMJ 23?  When I purchase another CDP, I will audition it in my home and compare it with my Insight DAC/whatever transport. However, a $2300.00 CDP is out of my price range, and I don't know that "dollar-for-dollar," I can find anything better than another Insight DAC and a moderately priced transport.  Frank currently has an Insight DAC in the old chassis for 799.00.

[BrianM]

My Ultra DAC replaced an FMJ 23, fwiw.  Kind of like dropping a 6-cylinder in where a 4 used to be.  It's a really nice 4,though.

[sueata1]

Who cares what the Crappy CD Player sounds like on its own.   Ya just want it for the Coax out to go into that AVA Dac,,,
I like CD players because the display is easy to navigate unlike the OPPO I have which I only use to play SACD's and DTS stuff, and memory sticks.

Yes Phillips Invented the CD and their transports have been pretty good down the road,,,
If ya can find a Used Shanling or Music Hall cheap pick it up ,,,,they use the Better Phillips Transports,

Happy listening,,,
Mel

[tgp06]

I concur with sueata1; my older CDPs were easier to see (age challenged eyes) and use than any DVD player I've tried. Sonically, I could detect no difference through their coax digital outputs, though the analog output differences were easy to hear. The real advantages I see today for DVD players are their flexibility (if you use a video /HT setup) , ready availability and generally lower prices.

[Lyndon]

Playstation as CD Player...

87 pages of discussion, and still going strong.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1654339#post1654339

I've been tempted, but have way...too...many transports.  I use a Philips for my video
because it plays so many formats, and has the USB outlet.  Better video and sound
are from my Pioneer 5??.  A 'music only' friend sold his modified Jolida for a used
Arcam and feels it was a strong step up.
I don't remember the model number of that expensive Philips player, that had a faulty faroudja chip
in it, but Philips treated the audio community pretty badly on that one.

[sanlanman]

If I was in EV-MAN's shoes a used Cambridge Audio 540C player from A'gon would be on my shortlist. I own a 640C V2 and it is pretty good, but it is vey likely that I will eventually get a good DAC and just use the 640 as a transport.

[boead]

My Ultra DAC replaced an FMJ 23, fwiw.  Kind of like dropping a 6-cylinder in where a 4 used to be.  It's a really nice 4,though.

Really, maybe I should try another AVA product. Maybe for my media server but I really want it to be USB, not spdif.

Peter McALister has a new DA out. Uses the same basic output design as his preamp which I own that replaced my AVA T7 pre. I sort of had the same impression you describe above. The AVA pre was nice, real nice but the McALister is much more appropriate for my tastes. Anyway, Peter's new DA has both SPDIF and USB inputs with a selector so it can be used with different transports. He also told me that it can easily be a preamp too, again same as the one I already have except it would need a selector and a variety of inputs and outputs. Mine has 6 inputs, two outs and one line level out. He's not built a DAC like that yet. Maybe mine will be the first. 

BrianM, what exactly was the differences between the FMJ and the UltraDAC in 'your' system. I like a somewhat robust sound with a certain emphasis on vocals. The AVA Preamp was very neutral, detailed and threw a large soundstage but was not as inviting or alluring as the McALister. To my ears and taste that equates to musicality. However, the AVA faired very well to other preamps I tried from Conrad Johnson and BAT. I guess it’s a matter of taste.

[geowak]

I use a Rega Apollo with a Benchmark DAC (USB). I really like the sound. It is the best I have had in a two channel system.
I like the Apollo for four reasons. It is built well. It has a great Wolfson DAC of it's own, just in case I grow tired of the Benchmark ext DAC. It has a built in buffer chip that reads the cd upon intialization, and picks the approriate beam
for each cd it reads. It has a top loading three-bearing chuck that holds the cd in place. Better than a drawer loading machine. My two cents, good luck.

[rkeir]

For what it's worth, about 10 years ago Sensible Sound magazine tested a number of CD players and transports, and DVD players for error correction/concealment and trackability. Among others, they tested a $4500 Wadia transport and $3500 players from Krell and Linn. There was also an assortment of cheaper players from JVC, Panasonic, Pioneer, and others.The JVC DVD player and JVC CD player tested best. The Wadia wasn't too far behind, but the expensive Linn and Krell players fared rather poorly. It's in issue #73 for those who save old magazines. (Interestingly, there is also in #73 a letter to the editor from Mithat Konar about some of his favorite music.) Over the years, I've used a number of players alone or as transports and never had problems with any of them dropping out or freezing. The only one that ever failed me, and it failed completely, was the AMC CD-8, a Sensible Sound recommendation.

[BrianM]

BrianM, what exactly was the differences between the FMJ and the UltraDAC in 'your' system. I like a somewhat robust sound with a certain emphasis on vocals. The AVA Preamp was very neutral, detailed and threw a large soundstage but was not as inviting or alluring as the McALister. To my ears and taste that equates to musicality. However, the AVA faired very well to other preamps I tried from Conrad Johnson and BAT. I guess it’s a matter of taste.

Changing upstream components can force one to reevaluate what the downstream components "sound like."  I originally thought the FetValve amp was somewhat bright and unforgiving, along with being obviously extremely competent.  When I replaced my preamp I reconsidered that the amp had simply been amplifying a bit of grain & hash in its neutral way.  So yeah, I'd describe the AVA preamp (and amp) as honest & unobtrusive components.  Once they were in place I was able to pick out differences between the Arcam and the Ultra DAC pretty well.  It basically came down to tone: there was more of it with the dac.  More layers, more a sense of 'thrust' at all frequencies.  If the Arcam is smooth and a bit cool, the Ultra DAC is richer and fuller.

I don't know how a component would "emphasize vocals" short of having artificial intelligence.  There's nothing in a digital bit stream that indicates to a component, "Someone is now singing," and in any case it would vary from recording to recording.

[BrianM]

Oh, and as has been said many times many ways, "musicality" is either present in the recording or it is not.  The more completely and faithfully your rig renders what's in the recording, the closer to "musical" you're going to get.  Personally I don't want my stereo to be imparting its own "allure."

[avahifi]

Question?  Do Blu-Ray players allow a digital output compatible with an audio DAC on normal CD playback?  On normal DVD movie audio track output?  On Blu-Ray movie audio output?

I have not played with one of these yet and just would like to know.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[martyo]

Question?  Do Blu-Ray players allow a digital output compatible with an audio DAC on normal CD playback?  On normal DVD movie audio track output?  On Blu-Ray movie audio output?

I have not played with one of these yet and just would like to know.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Yes to all three, using the coax digital out on my Sony to the Ultra.

[boead]

So yeah, I'd describe the AVA preamp (and amp) as honest & unobtrusive components.  Once they were in place I was able to pick out differences between the Arcam and the Ultra DAC pretty well.  It basically came down to tone: there was more of it with the dac.  More layers, more a sense of 'thrust' at all frequencies.  If the Arcam is smooth and a bit cool, the Ultra DAC is richer and fuller.

I don't know how a component would "emphasize vocals" short of having artificial intelligence.  There's nothing in a digital bit stream that indicates to a component, "Someone is now singing," and in any case it would vary from recording to recording.

Wow, richer and fuller. I already thought the FMJ was rich and full, it’s certainly was compared to the half dozen CDP’s I listened to from Parasound, Carry and Meridian amongst others. Any richer or fuller and I’d not like. Thanks for the heads up on that. The Arcam has a reputation for being that way, some like it some don’t. As far as anyone of these or any CDPs or DACs being truly neutral – well that is impossible to tell. How the hell could you know what neutral or honest to the recording is? Answer; you can’t and never will. It’s subjective.

Oh and "emphasize vocals" means an emphasis in the vocal range. Sorry I didn’t think I needed to spell that out for anyone. In any case, I listen to lots of vocalist and small groups of instruments (folk, jazz, and soloist). Not a lot of orchestra, pop or fat-bottom rock or metal. So again my tastes lean towards components that compliment the style of music I listen to most of the time and my system and room.

Again, that’s for the heads up on the Ultra DAC, I’d likely not like it very much. I find that somewhat odd though, my T7 preamp was somewhat lean and thin for my taste but imaged very well. Its headphone section was also somewhat lean which lead me to looking for something with more weight (I primarily use a pair of Sennheiser HD600’s but have and have had many others). I would have expected AVA’s DAC to have a similar signature sound. But from what your comparison, it doesn’t.

I’m not particularly fussy; I just know what I like. If you say it’s neutral and flat and I don’t like it then it’s not what’s best for me. I’m not one to force myself to like or get use to something that is ‘supposed’ to be better or more-correct. Life’s to short for that.

Oh, and as has been said many times many ways, "musicality" is either present in the recording or it is not.  The more completely and faithfully your rig renders what's in the recording, the closer to "musical" you're going to get.  Personally I don't want my stereo to be imparting its own "allure."

I don’t agree with that at all but to each his own.

Just remember to enjoy the music.

 

[boead]

Question?  Do Blu-Ray players allow a digital output compatible with an audio DAC on normal CD playback?  On normal DVD movie audio track output?  On Blu-Ray movie audio output?

I have not played with one of these yet and just would like to know.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

I believe all units will convert to Linear PCM for SACD and DVD-A. Generally they won’t output at their full res digitally, its mostly a copyright thing the music industry doesn’t want done. In a watered down generalized explanation.

[BrianM]

boead, glad I could help you make your decision.