[oneinthepipe]

The phone section on the Insight preamp is awesome, and I have started buying some more vinyl.  I picked up a 200 gram LP of Norah Jones' "not too late" by Classic Records from an Amazon marketplace seller last week for $2.70, including Amazon Prime 2-Day shipping.  Frankly, I don't care much for the music on this album, but the sound is great, even with my 20-something year old Audio Technica AT30E and a NOS stylus (moving coil cartridge with a step-up transformer).  I ordered an AT 400MLa last week, per Wayners' suggestion, which should be here next week.

We had some friends over last night, and the wife (not my wife; the other wife) visibly cringed when she saw the bass traps and acoustic panels hanging from the walls and ceiling.  She told me, "Nice color."  They are purple (burgundy), and there isn't a wife anywhere that would think they were a nice color!  Anyway, I asked her if she wanted "to take a listen," and to indulge me, I am sure, she replied OK.  I played a previously unopened LP, Norah Jones' "live from austin tx," and when I was removing the film from the jacket cover, she asked, "Is that new?"  Both her husband and she didn't know that anyone sold "records" anymore.  Anyway, she looked in shock when the record began playing.  She stated, "This is good."  Then, she asked her husband, "Why doesn't our stereo sound like this?"  We also listened to a few CDs, and while the Insight DAC is phenomenal, the vinyl sounded better.  I believe that it will be even better after I install the AT 440MLa cartridge. 

Now, I need to learn how to clean my LPs.  For years, I used a discwasher brush/pad with discwasher's fluid, and that is the only cleaning device that I have.  I think an LP cleaning machine is out of my budget.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I read a few threads in other sections, but I am not sure what to believe.

[Wayner]

OITP,

I believe the records biggest enemy is static. These things are just big disc capacitors. If they didn't hold static, for the most part, they would be clean, useless you like to handle the grooves or spill stuff into the grooves.

To that end, I really promote using a brush (I like the Discwasher) and some wetting fluid to apply to the brush (one or 2 mists) to make it damp and then brush the record, while it's spinning on the platter before playing. I do this before each play.

If I buy a used LP, I fill the laundry tub up with dishwashing soap and warm water, Then I use a nice 2 1/2" horse hair brush (because the hair is gentle) and get the soapy suds into the grooves. After a good rinse, I used only cotton hand towels to dry off the record and label. Let them dry and your good to go. You may never need to clean them in the sink ever again, if you use the discwasher brush. Oh ya, The fluid I use (in a small mist bottle) is 3 parts distilled water, 1 part 99% isopropyl alcohol. The alcohol does 2 things, first, it keeps mold from growing in the water, and second, it helps clean the record. All of my records are slippery clean.

Wayner

[sanlanman]

Wayner, Where do you get 99% Isopropyl Alcohol? The highest I can find is 91% in the drug store and I am afraid to use it, fearing that the other 9% may be chemicals or impurities that will be left in the record grooves.

[Wayner]

Sorry  I didn't get back sooner....I just had some surgery this morning. Mind still in  haze.....so I should be normal right?

Wayner 

[dB Cooper]

I heard that alcohol leaches the plasticizing agents from the vinyl, making it more brittle and vulnerable to damage. Don't know if that's true or not (not being a chemist), but the Discwasher company among others used to make the claim.

[Wayner]

Well, I've been using it for about 40 years and don't have any ill effects. Perhaps Discwasher wanted you to buy their "majic fluid". I actually thought the stuff just gunked up the records, like the brush, though.

Wayner

[turkey]

Wayner, Where do you get 99% Isopropyl Alcohol? The highest I can find is 91% in the drug store and I am afraid to use it, fearing that the other 9% may be chemicals or impurities that will be left in the record grooves.

There are some isopropyl (rubbing) alcohols that contain wintergreen oil or something similar to give them a scent. Those wouldn't be very good for your LPs.

Standard isopropyl is 91% alcohol with the rest being water. It should work just fine for cleaning records.

I suppose you could always put a little bit on a clean piece of glass and see if it leaves a residue when it evaporates.

[turkey]

I heard that alcohol leaches the plasticizing agents from the vinyl, making it more brittle and vulnerable to damage. Don't know if that's true or not (not being a chemist), but the Discwasher company among others used to make the claim.

I'm sure that it is not the best thing for vinyl, so it should only be used once in a while if the record is really dirty.

Deionized water with a mild surfactant works very well for cleaning records. That's what most of the magic potions are.

You can buy a gallon of distilled water at the grocery store and put in a couple of drops of this per pint:
http://www.amazon.com/Edwal-Wetting-Agent-Developer-Additive/dp/B00009R6Z6    (Other brands of wetting agent should be just fine too.)

It works well, is safe to use, and won't leave any residue.

[Wayner]

I use my alcohol/water mist spray everyday. There is no damage to any record. I  have the original almost everything to prove it. The water/alcohol will get onto the record surface and evaporate in seconds. I will stick to my method. I haven't tried Edwal-Agent-Developer-Additive for 40 years, and I don't know whats in that stuff.

Wayner

[ricmon]

I use my alcohol/water mist spray everyday. There is no damage to any record. I  have the original almost everything to prove it. The water/alcohol will get onto the record surface and evaporate in seconds. I will stick to my method. I haven't tried Edwal-Agent-Developer-Additive for 40 years, and I don't know whats in that stuff.

Wayner

 My problem seems to be with the type of fabric my cloth is made of.  What are you using as a wipe?

[Wayner]

I use the Discwasher 4 brush with my own fluid.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Discwasher-D4-Kit

Wayner

[Dan Kolton]

Years ago I bought a bottle of "Everclear" booze at the local party store (no longer legal in Michigan) and used it mixed with a bit of distilled water in my record cleaning machine.  It worked well.  I don't remember the exact proportion with water, but I think the ethyl alcohol was about 98 proof.

[turkey]

I use my alcohol/water mist spray everyday. There is no damage to any record. I  have the original almost everything to prove it. The water/alcohol will get onto the record surface and evaporate in seconds. I will stick to my method. I haven't tried Edwal-Agent-Developer-Additive for 40 years, and I don't know whats in that stuff.

Hey, if your method works for you, that's fine.

As for the wetting agent, I already said it contains a mild surfactant. It doesn't harm photographic negatives or leave residue on them, so it's not going to cause problems with LPs either.

[Wayner]

I guess I've done a test....for 40 years. How's that for proof. Film negative is not made out of vinyl, so your assumtions are very out in left field, also unproven with the test of time.

Wayner

[Brett Buck]

I guess I've done a test....for 40 years. How's that for proof. Film negative is not made out of vinyl, so your assumtions are very out in left field, also unproven with the test of time.

     The surfactant is just a very mild soap, so I would expect it would work fine for this purpose. The beauty is that it is known not to leave any perceptible film. I have used everything from laundry detergent (liquid) to Photo-Flo for the washing part and I think the results are indistinguishable. The IPA/Water is fine for the day-to-day cleaning.

    BTW, if you are worried about static electricity, use the old trick - a Staticmaster brush (or really, just the refill). It very effectively removes any charge.

      Brett

[turkey]

I guess I've done a test....for 40 years. How's that for proof. Film negative is not made out of vinyl, so your assumtions are very out in left field, also unproven with the test of time.

That's not proof, it's anecdotal. I can offer up anecdotal evidence too. I've used photo wetting agent and distilled water for years. Not 40, but long enough. I started using it when the bottle of liquid that came with a Discwasher brush ran out, and I've used it off and on ever since. I bet it's been 25 years.

Brett is spot on about photo wetting agents being designed to not leave any perceptible film.

I have a Staticmaster brush somewhere too, so maybe I'll give that a try.

I was about to give up on vinyl for good, but Frank told me the Insight phono section was something special. As usual, he was right. I still prefer CD, but my old LPs sound quite good too.

[R Swerdlow]

Wayner uses 3 parts distilled water and 1 part 99% isopropyl alcohol.  turkey uses distilled water plus a few drops of mild surfactant (detergent) like Edwal wetting agent or Kodak Photo-flo.  And then the debate follows…  You are both right.

Water alone on a vinyl surface can bead up as it dries, leaving dusty spots on the record.  Mixing isopropanol and water solves this problem, and so does small amounts of mild surfactants.  Both will break up the surface tension of water, allowing it to spread out on a vinyl surface in a thin even layer.  When developing camera film, it was easily to get visible water spots on negatives (they were visible because they contained dust and dissolved salts) unless a detergent like Photo-flo was mixed in the final rinse water.

It is important not to use just any detergent.  Some detergent molecules have a negative or positive electrical charge, and some are electrically neutral.  Use only neutral (non-ionic) detergents.  The ones mentioned above are fine, but there are many others as well.  With detergents, less is more.  Use only a few drops mixed into a gallon of water.  If you add too much, it could leave a sticky residue on a record.

Someone else worried if isopropanol leaches the plasticizing agents from the vinyl, making it more brittle and vulnerable to damage.  Isopropyl alcohol is not an aggressive enough organic solvent to damage vinyl records.  This is especially true when it is diluted in water.  Even if you use undiluted isopropyl alcohol, if you apply small amounts of it on the surface of a record and let it dry soon, it will be harmless.  I would avoid soaking a record in undiluted isopropanol for a long time, but no one needs to do that.  Remember those red plastic bottles that Discwasher used to sell?  They were made of softer polyvinyl chloride plastic and they contained isopropanol diluted in water.  If it didn’t cause the bottle any harm, I think it is OK for the record too.

[turkey]

Wayner uses 3 parts distilled water and 1 part 99% isopropyl alcohol.  turkey uses distilled water plus a few drops of mild surfactant (detergent) like Edwal wetting agent or Kodak Photo-flo.  And then the debate follows…  You are both right.

Water alone on a vinyl surface can bead up as it dries, leaving dusty spots on the record.  Mixing isopropanol and water solves this problem, and so does small amounts of mild surfactants.  Both will break up the surface tension of water, allowing it to spread out on a vinyl surface in a thin even layer.  When developing camera film, it was easily to get visible water spots on negatives (they were visible because they contained dust and dissolved salts) unless a detergent like Photo-flo was mixed in the final rinse water.

It is important not to use just any detergent.  Some detergent molecules have a negative or positive electrical charge, and some are electrically neutral.  Use only neutral (non-ionic) detergents.  The ones mentioned above are fine, but there are many others as well.  With detergents, less is more.  Use only a few drops mixed into a gallon of water.  If you add too much, it could leave a sticky residue on a record.

Someone else worried if isopropanol leaches the plasticizing agents from the vinyl, making it more brittle and vulnerable to damage.  Isopropyl alcohol is not an aggressive enough organic solvent to damage vinyl records.  This is especially true when it is diluted in water.  Even if you use undiluted isopropyl alcohol, if you apply small amounts of it on the surface of a record and let it dry soon, it will be harmless.  I would avoid soaking a record in undiluted isopropanol for a long time, but no one needs to do that.  Remember those red plastic bottles that Discwasher used to sell?  They were made of softer polyvinyl chloride plastic and they contained isopropanol diluted in water.  If it didn’t cause the bottle any harm, I think it is OK for the record too.

Ok, thanks for the info. I'm glad both Wayner and I are right.

[Art_Chicago]

Where one can get isopropyl alchol? As a chemist I think that any cheap unflavoured vodka should work just fine! My Russian soul may not like this idea, but in case you run out of isopropyl, you can always get a bottle of Petroff or whatever, just do not drink it!

[Wayner]

Art,

I think vodka should be drank, not listened to. I think there is a sugar type residue in the vodka that will leave deposits in the grooves, which sounds real bad...........................

Wayner