Phono stage dilemna

bluemike · « **on:** 4 Nov 2008, 02:31 pm »

I have a lenco L-75 and have a looking at the following phono stages

Lehman Black cube with power supply or Project Phono SE 2

The cartridge I will be using it with is a Denon 103r and a Rega Arm

Opinions needed

woodsyi · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 03:07 pm »

Get one and start listening.

At that price range I think you can add Jolida and Graham Slee to the list. Sorry to add more to your dilemma.

bluemike · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 03:25 pm »

Thanks Woodsyi
I want a phono stage that I won't need to upgrade in 6 months time if that means going for something more expensive I would rather do this

woodsyi · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 04:07 pm »

What's your line-stage, amp and the speakers?

bluemike · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 04:12 pm »

Audioprism Mantissa Tubed, Dodd Audio 120 Mono blocks & Ridge Street Sason's

woodsyi · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 05:24 pm »

Quote from: bluemike on 4 Nov 2008, 04:12 pm

Audioprism Mantissa Tubed, Dodd Audio 120 Mono blocks & Ridge Street Sason's

Alright, I am not the best person to give you specific recommendation since I don't have a Denon 103R but I can give you my impression of the situation. First, I think you are looking too low with Lehman and Project. Having just upgraded my phono stage and finding a big difference, I say look "higher." I think if you look up to 1.5K in the used market, your choices will be much greater. From what I have read about Denon 103R's, I think it offers more than what your Lehmans and Projects can resolve. Your down stream gear can certainly handle whatever you throw at them. Another possibility is replacing your venerable Mantissa with a preamp that has a phono section.

bluemike · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 05:40 pm »

Thanks Woodsyi
The setup is fine sounding I have put all vcaps in my mantissa and it's not going anywhere soon
In the 1.5k neighboorhood are there any favourites I know you went with Aesthetic Rio but that is too rich for my blood at this stage

BobM · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 06:11 pm »

Still happy with that Mantissa, I see. Mee too (I recapped with teflons as well).

I would suggest that you get the best phono preamp you can afford. The Mantissa will let it all come through. I have a Hagerman Trumpet that works well with my Dynavector 20X-H cartridge. I'm not sure about the Denon - is it high output or low? The Coronet is also very good, but not in the same league as the Trumpet overall.

I've heard great things about the Graham Slee's, but you have to decide if you want SS or tubes in that spot. There's also a few highly touted SS phono stages over at Audiogon that purportedly sound like tubes and have more gain for LOMC's, but they'll run about $2000 ballpark. Run a search over there.

Enjoy,
Bob

bluemike · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 06:17 pm »

Yup the Mantissa is an excellent linestage made better with VCAPS

The Denon cart I want to get is a DL103R low output ..any retailers I should buy from
I'm checking E bay and Audiogon on a daily basis
The denon on the Lenco sounds very good and wil rival carts 1-2 x more in cost

What is the gain on the Hagerman Trumpet do you have the upgraded power supply as well

woodsyi · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 07:09 pm »

This is where synergy issue really comes into play and you also have to define what kind of presentation you want. The kind of music you like to listen may also influence your choice. For example, I find Modwright precise and exact with great punch. Tube PS brought in more flesh but it's not a bloomy unit. I like full orchestral music through this phono stage. Art Audio Vinyl One has tube bloom. I really like the voices through this unit. I can listen to vocals and small ensemble all day with this. Art Audio Vinyl Reference is in between Modwright and Vinyl One. I preferred the cheaper Vinyl One for my use. The "classic" EAR 834P is well rounded like a Honda Accord. It has a bit of bloom, good treble extension and moderately punchy bass. All these are thin sounding compared to the Aesthetix Io II. They all reacted a little differently to different carts but stayed within the general characteristics. You have to try them with your setup to hear for yourself. My Art Audio Vinyl One unit is on loan but I can send you my EAR 834P to hear if you want to find out what a "generic" tube phono stage sounds like. You just gotta pay for the shipping. I haven't even unpacked it since I got it back from the last tour around AC.

bluemike · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 07:20 pm »

Woodsyi You have a pm

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 07:34 pm »

bluemike...now you understand why we refer to woodsyi as Father Theresa around here

John

bluemike · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 07:39 pm »

In my mind you guy's are all great

Great advice and sheer honesty that's tops in my books

TONEPUB · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 07:50 pm »

I cast a vote for the Lehman SE with the power supply.
We were really impressed.

As for the IO II, almost everything sounds "a little thin" in comparison.
That's the best phono stage on Earth, for my money...

Lots of tubes, but if you ever get the chance to experience one
go for it! Wonderful.

bluemike · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 08:48 pm »

Thanks Jeff for your input

bluemike · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Nov 2008, 02:23 pm »

Bob
As a mantissa owner
What isolation, footers, power cords etc have you tried with the Mantissa and ended up liking the best

I'm currently using morrow power cords for the power supply and the isolation is mostly Herbies tweaks

Love to hear your input
Pat

BobM · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Nov 2008, 03:40 pm »

I tried putting rollerball's underneath, but eventually want back to something squishy. I actually have foam tennis balls cut in half. They seem to float things better than squash balls or sorbothane feet.

I do have Herbie clones on the tubes. I found looser fitting tube resonant devices sounded better than tight fitting ones (i.e. o-rings). The tighter ones lost some spaciousness and that live feeling.

I've done a little work on the power supply, changing out some of the smaller caps for better ones. I have the big caps bypassed with .1uF caps. It did tighten up the bass a bit doing this, to good effect. I am using an Asylum cord on the power supply. I've tried others but this still sounds best to me. I also found that any kind of power conditioning clamped down and choked the sound, so it's direct from the wall.

I think the best tuning is via the tubes. The 6922's seem to make the most difference in tonality here. I went with something more transparent and clear rather than something more muted and old world sounding. I am using 6922 "rockets" from Upscale Audio. The 12AU7's give it punch. I think I have RCA clear tops in there now, but I'm not sure.

What are you using?

Bob

bluemike · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Nov 2008, 03:45 pm »

Bob, Since this is the vinyl circle I will pm you offline

Sorry Moderators
Pat

Scottdazzle · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Nov 2008, 09:49 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi on 4 Nov 2008, 03:07 pm

Get one and start listening.

At that price range I think you can add Jolida and Graham Slee to the list. Sorry to add more to your dilemma.

Woodsyi,
Have you auditioned either the Jolida or Graham Slee? I may be in the market too.

topround · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Nov 2008, 10:03 pm »

Now I am no vinyl expert, for sure, rather a newbie, again
I just bought a Graham Slee gold era V for use with my ClearAudio Aurum Beta S
and I really like it, very sweet sounding. Major improvement over the other stuff I was using, my built in phono pre, and the Rek O Kut phono pre!