[DR]

Greetings,

I have a question that I would appreciate some input on. I have an Onkyo HT Receiver that is 7.1. However, my speaker set up is 5.1. Should my rears (which are in the same plane as my listening position on each side) be the side audio output or the rear output when 7.1 is available?

Your help is appreciated,

 

[bpape]

For 5.1, set up to 135 degrees from the viewing axis.

Bryan

[DR]

Hi Bryan,

I didn't explain myself well. If 7.1 sound is available, I can assign the output of position 4 or 5, or 6 and 7 to the rears. I am new to 7.1 and am not sure what the information the sides versus the rear provides. With 5.1 it is easy. LF, RF, Center, Sub and RL and RR.

Dave

[bpape]

If you have 5.1 speakers, just tell the processor so - no side surrounds and it will route accordingly.  Realistically, 99.999% of all material is really only 5.1 anyway and the extra 2 channels are derived

Bryan

[DR]

Cool - it will be so.

Thanks Bryan!

[satfrat]

If you have 5.1 speakers, just tell the processor so - no side surrounds and it will route accordingly.  Realistically, 99.999% of all material is really only 5.1 anyway and the extra 2 channels are derived

Bryan

Bryan, I think DR would want to connect the side surrounds and leave the rear surrounds disconnected. The rear surrounds are the center channel speaker connections.

Cheers,
Robin

[Bob in St. Louis]

"rear surrounds are the center channel speaker connections"
Not sure what you mean there Robin.....

My receiver is a 7.1, and my speakers are 5.1, just like DR. I've told the receiver there are no sides. Only LCR (left, center, right) and two rears. Nothing on the sides, physically or "electrically" in the receiver.
To this day, I've not seen 7.1 listed as an option on a DVD, DVD-A, or video game.
To the best of my knowledge, movies are recorded (made) with two dedicated rear channels, but nothing for the sides. Like Bryan said, modern receivers have the ability to decide what content whould be fed to the side channels. It's neat, but you're not hearing what is recorded on the DVD, you're hearing what Onkyo wants you to hear.

Bob

[ted_b]

There are indeed "true" discrete 7.1 mixes out there (where side/surround and rear/surround-back have different discrete signals) , especially in the Blu-Ray TrueHD world,. but not many of them.  They are the standard for the future, though.

Yes, tell the system you have five speakers (not inc sub of course) and it will downmix any side to rear steering/matrixing to one set of surrounds, usually called surrounds (which many receivers also call "sides").  The back speakers are usually the 7.1 added option, not the sides IMO.  Your Onkyo calls them surr and surrback.  The "surr" are sides in other implementations, and are the default for 5.1.

Here's a snip from an Onkyo receiver manual (see 5 speaker setup column; they assume subwoofer)

[bpape]

Whichever way it's listed on your receiver - use it.  The ones I'm familiar with, the sides are the 6th and 7th channels.  Yours appears to be the other way around according to what Ted posted.

Bryan

[Bob in St. Louis]

I've never seen that before, but agree with Bryan...Whatever the manufacturer says, do it that way.

Bob

[satfrat]

There are indeed "true" discrete 7.1 mixes out there (where side/surround and rear/surround-back have different discrete signals) , especially in the Blu-Ray TrueHD world,. but not many of them.  They are the standard for the future, though.

Yes, tell the system you have five speakers (not inc sub of course) and it will downmix any side to rear steering/matrixing to one set of surrounds, usually called surrounds (which many receivers also call "sides").  The back speakers are usually the 7.1 added option, not the sides IMO.  Your Onkyo calls them surr and surrback.  The "surr" are sides in other implementations, and are the default for 5.1.

Here's a snip from an Onkyo receiver manual (see 5 speaker setup column; they assume subwoofer)

My Sunfire listed the rear speakers in the same way. The word "side" is misleading. Bob, when I said "center", I meant rear center which is what the (6/7).1 really are. In a (6/7).1 system, the rear center channels are the rear surround so the surround apeakers themselves (4/5).1 could be looked at as side surrounds, even tho I don't like using the word "side". Sorry for the confusion but it was a confusingly worded question.

Cheers,
Robin

[ted_b]

Robin,
You are confusing a back center channel (like a 6.1 setup with Dolby EX) with a true 7.1 setup where the back surrounds are separate and distinct.  Not sure why you are using "center" so often in this discussion...it's only relevant in 6.1 setups..something no one on this thread has mentioned or set up.

[satfrat]

Robin,
You are confusing a back center channel (like a 6.1 setup with Dolby EX) with a true 7.1 setup where the back surrounds are separate and distinct.  Not sure why you are using "center" so often in this discussion...it's only relevant in 6.1 setups..something no one on this thread has mentioned or set up.

No I'm not confused, I simply have a 6.1 system. Even so, I personally would still look at a7.1 system as having 2 rear "center" channel speakers and I feel using the word "center" does an adeguate job at differentiating the 6/7 channels from the actual surround channels 4/5.
I'm sorry you have an issue with the way I look at things Ted but it makes perfect sense to me.

Cheers,
Robin

[opnly bafld]

7.1 or 6.1 it really doesn't matter.
On most soundtracks it is a matrixed channel (think dolby prologic L+R=mono center info) on some soundtracks it is discrete (think dolby digital mono center).

When 6.1 receivers were new and really expensive you could have the same thing with a 5.1 rec. and an older prologic rec. with 3 stereo (front 3 -no surrounds) on the 2 rear channels.

As far as speaker hook up with 5 speakers, what Bryan has said.

Lin 
IMO the best HT is 1.1 

[satfrat]

Lin 
IMO the best HT is 1.1 

1.1? No stereo?

[opnly bafld]

A really good center channel with a sub. 
Dialog is much easier to hear and understand in mono vs. stereo, which as I understand it was the reason for a center speaker way back when in movie houses.
The rest is too fake, too gimmicky for me.
If the movie is good I don't need any made up, added later sounds to enjoy it.
With surround sound I notice when it doesn't sound right more than with mono.

Lin

[Bob in St. Louis]

Robin, I've had the honor of having Lin to my home. I TRIED to show him the light, but to no avail......
I suppose my rig wasn't up to the task at the time.    

Bob

[satfrat]

A really good center channel with a sub. 
The rest is too fake, too gimmicky for me.
If the movie is good I don't need any made up, added later sounds to enjoy it.
With surround sound I notice when it doesn't sound right more than with mono.

Lin

Well that's a 1st Lin, usually it's the center that's not wanted, not the stereo speakers. But if that's what I like, that's what you like. The more speakers the merrier for me.


Cheers,
Robin

[opnly bafld]

Well that's a 1st Lin, usually it's the center that's not wanted, not the stereo speakers. But if that's what I like, that's what you like. The more speakers the merrier for me.


Cheers,
Robin

Robin,
Whatever people like is fine with me also. 

With regard to no center, I have found in most instances it was because the center speaker was of inferior quality or the drivers were arranged differently than the mains (horizontal vs. vertical).
George's HT would be perfect to use as an example because he uses 3 identical speakers across the front.
Do an A/B with and without the center, I think 99% would prefer it with the center and some might even prefer just a center to no center. 

Lin

[ted_b]

Robin,
You are confusing a back center channel (like a 6.1 setup with Dolby EX) with a true 7.1 setup where the back surrounds are separate and distinct.  Not sure why you are using "center" so often in this discussion...it's only relevant in 6.1 setups..something no one on this thread has mentioned or set up.

No I'm not confused, I simply have a 6.1 system. Even so, I personally would still look at a7.1 system as having 2 rear "center" channel speakers and I feel using the word "center" does an adeguate job at differentiating the 6/7 channels from the actual surround channels 4/5.
I'm sorry you have an issue with the way I look at things Ted but it makes perfect sense to me.

Cheers,
Robin

Robin,
I wasn't meaning to have an issue; sorry you took it that way.  All I was saying is that the OP was asking about 7.1 and you were talking rear center speaker(s).  The rear speakers in a true 7.1 setup (or even good 5.1 to 7.1 matrixing algorithms like Logic7 or good DPLIIx) are indeed distinct non-mono info, steered or discrete.