[Mariusz]

Wow, I just learned that Mariusz is a GIANT!

Three members of New York RAVE at a time experience PanAmbio at the Ambiophonics Institute, posting comments and photos (courtesy Mariusz)

Not at all but sometimes I feel eleveted by other AC members.

Ambio also has a financial issues to deal with, even tho Tact is coming out with a $2000 unit that will work for stereo, in order to convert a 4 loudspeaker hometheater would require a $20,000 Tact. Add more surround speakers to widen the footprint and the sweatbeads will really start to form on one's forehead. Plus the fact that an Ambio hometheater is a 1 man showroom,,, maybe 2 man with in line chairs,,, no side by side allowed. But for the single guy, TV or movies in Ambio would be breathtaking from what i witnessed at Ralph's. These drawbacks are the reasons why I really think the marketplace for Ambio lies in stereo laptops and the younger generation who lives on them for music and music videos. It's a 1 person virtual reality show for all laptop owners.


Cheers,
Robin

Robin
I believe the up coming TacT processor with "Ambiophonic" build-in will support 4-6 speakers if my information is correct. ($1999)

You are right about sweet spot limitations Robin.
It has the potentials but I suspect that it might share the faith of its predecessors.

I really wish Ralph all the best but if Japanese or Chinese won't "invent" it,
 it might die as a concept with potentials.

Personally,
I kind of liked it but I can't see myself with more then 4 speakers,
nevertheless 6,8 or 36.

Ralph's reference room is truly one of a kind.
Visually, acoustically and sonically. 

Never in my life I have experienced anything remotely close to live performance - this system was the exception.

Mariusz

[Bob in St. Louis]

Never in my life I have experienced anything remotely close to live performance - this system was the exception.

Really!?  That's quite the testimonial Mariusz! Big time, to say the least.
I'm sure you've heard some quality stuff in NY.

Bob

[goldlizsts]

Robin
I believe the up coming TacT processor with "Ambiophonic" build-in will support 4-6 speakers if my information is correct. ($1999)

You are right about sweet spot limitations Robin.
It has the potentials but I suspect that it might share the faith of its predecessors.

I really wish Ralph all the best but if Japanese or Chinese won't "invent" it,
 it might die as a concept with potentials.

Personally,
I kind of liked it but I can't see myself with more then 4 speakers,
nevertheless 6,8 or 36.

Ralph's reference room is truly one of a kind.
Visually, acoustically and sonically. 

Never in my life I have experienced anything remotely close to live performance - this system was the exception.

Mariusz

Ditto with Robin's observation.  The fact that the speakers, esp. the front ones, have to be in a certain may be a drawback.  But.... I thought in the 2-channel format, we have to observe certain rules also.  It's just a matter of people accepting it, and some luck.  If the general population resists any new technology, it'll wither on the vine.  Also, like in the music business, if there's sufficient backing, it helps that much more.  In performance music, there are too many talents gone wasted because of the lack of promotion.  Only a handful are lucky enogh to have rabbis to help them succeed.  Of course, talent is the absolute prerequisite.  Ralph's technology certainly has talent (merits).  The huge soundstage floored all of us who were there, didn't it?  Now, get some lobbyists to push it!  The system with 36 speakers are impressive, but the setup may turn people off.  I would think that putting emphasis on using no more than 4 (like a current home theater system) speakers may make a better impression on the potential subscriber.  36 speakers are impressive, but they also intimidate.

Best of luck, Ralph!

Shek

[Mariusz]

Never in my life I have experienced anything remotely close to live performance - this system was the exception.

Really!?  That's quite the testimonial Mariusz! Big time, to say the least.
I'm sure you've heard some quality stuff in NY.

Bob

I am not a kiss ass by nature - trust me, it is sick.

Keep in mind that I could not care less about the computer demo or small Bose system.
What I am talking about is 34 Sound Lab speakers and two full range MBL for subtle sound effects.
If Ralph ever decide to try new Labs instead of these crappy MBLs ........ just let me know.

Now, with all seriousness -
that set up costs at least couple million dollars.
Room as far as I could tell is build with Ambiophonic in mind.
*angled, acoustically treated walls
*at least 50' tall ceiling - eliminated or at least greatly reduce the ceiling reflections.
and more

What may shock you is the use of THE CHEAPEST RADIO SHACK speaker cables, extensions and PC.
If that wasn't suppressing enough - the 2nd and 3th floor Sound Lab effect speakers were hooked up by inexpensive 2.4Gz wireless transmitter/receivers.

All that doesn't change the FACT that it was the closest thing to the real concert hall or live performance.
Whatever have you heard at the CES, RMAF etc. doesn't come remotely close. Including the top of the line Reference MBLs.
There is really nothing in its class.
If there is .......... I have not heard it yet.

Mariusz

[Barry_NJ]

I think Levi's picture posts are worth posting here...

Ralph's laboratory


Closer


Ralph demonstrating his Ambiophonics to NY Audio Ravers!

Ralph Glasgal and Joe next to a wall of TacT processor (s)/Amp(s)

You like flat panel?  Look no more.  Behold, the SoundLab!




Mike Fox next to the SoundLabs.

Ambiophonics DVD.  Available only with a purchase of Tact processor.


Tact gears


Rear view

[satfrat]

Robin
I believe the up coming TacT processor with "Ambiophonic" build-in will support 4-6 speakers if my information is correct. ($1999)

You are right about sweet spot limitations Robin.
It has the potentials but I suspect that it might share the faith of its predecessors.

I really wish Ralph all the best but if Japanese or Chinese won't "invent" it,
 it might die as a concept with potentials.

Personally,
I kind of liked it but I can't see myself with more then 4 speakers,
nevertheless 6,8 or 36.

Ralph's reference room is truly one of a kind.
Visually, acoustically and sonically. 

Never in my life I have experienced anything remotely close to live performance - this system was the exception.

Mariusz

Mariusz, Ralph specifically told me that the $1999 Tact only handles 2 loudspeakers and that the much more expensive Tact would be needed for just 4 loudspeakers. This is what he said, I really dunno and am not looking into it as I'm not even considering Tacts for my system. Of course if I find another $60,000/year job, I might change my mind. aa


Cheers,
Robin

[Mariusz]

Robin
I believe the up coming TacT processor with "Ambiophonic" build-in will support 4-6 speakers if my information is correct. ($1999)

You are right about sweet spot limitations Robin.
It has the potentials but I suspect that it might share the faith of its predecessors.

I really wish Ralph all the best but if Japanese or Chinese won't "invent" it,
 it might die as a concept with potentials.

Personally,
I kind of liked it but I can't see myself with more then 4 speakers,
nevertheless 6,8 or 36.

Ralph's reference room is truly one of a kind.
Visually, acoustically and sonically. 

Never in my life I have experienced anything remotely close to live performance - this system was the exception.

Mariusz

Mariusz, Ralph specifically told me that the $1999 Tact only handles 2 loudspeakers and that the much more expensive Tact would be needed for just 4 loudspeakers. This is what he said, I really dunno and am not looking into it as I'm not even considering Tacts for my system. Of course if I find another $60,000/year job, I might change my mind. aa


Cheers,
Robin

I owned TacT before - long time ago.
Its RCS suppose to eliminate my acoustic issues/problems.
It did ........... and in the same time it eliminate something else - soul. 
I have a flyer in my car from Ralph and I could swore that it says 4-6 channels.

I guess we will have to ask Ralph...............

Knock, knock !!!!!!!

[Mariusz]

I think Levi's picture posts are worth posting here...

Levi's......??????? or yours Berry ????
The guy in the white shirt looks very familiar. 

Mariusz

[Barry_NJ]

You are correct Robin, the TacT 2.2 MINI ($3.5K) and RCS 2.2 XP DDD ($5.2K) only handle 2 channels, the TCS MKII ($9.9K) will handle 10 channels...

http://www.tactaudio.com/
https://www.tactlab.com/tact_webshop/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=4
https://www.tactlab.com/tact_webshop/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=5

Well Mariusz, Levi took the pictures, though I do happen to be in a couple of them

[Mariusz]

You are correct Robin, the TacT 2.2 MINI ($3.5K) and RCS 2.2 XP DDD ($5.2K) only handle 2 channels, the TCS MKII ($9.9K) will handle 10 channels...

http://www.tactaudio.com/
https://www.tactlab.com/tact_webshop/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=4
https://www.tactlab.com/tact_webshop/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=5

Well Mariusz, Levi took the pictures, though I do happen to be in a couple of them

Ralph mentioned that the TacT website might feature this new Ambiophonic Preamp in a few weeks time.
It is NOT up yet. Cost - $1999.

Guys - it is up coming product  (not released yet).

Mariusz

[Barry_NJ]

Ralph mentioned that the TacT website might feature this new Ambiophonic Preamp in a few weeks time.
It is NOT up yet. Cost - $1999.

Guys - it is up coming product  (not released yet).

Mariusz

Ahhh... Gotcha

[sunshinedawg]

You can do this way cheaper than that Robin.

My buddy Sean (Sunshinedawg) has an ambiophonic setup and he uses gear that isn't even close to the costs you mention above.

I will try and point him to this thread so he can provide his input and insight.

George

You can do this on the cheap if your interested. You really only need two things, crosstalk canceled front speakers and ambiance surround channels. It does help to have a dead room. The CTC front speakers can easily be done by just placing a physical barrier between the speakers or you can use a pc or a Tact if you have the money. You also can use a pc for the ambiance generation. I prefer to use a JVC xp1010, a yamaha dsp3000 and a yamaha dsp-a3090, all hardware base surround processors. All of them are long out of production, check ebay periodically.

This is not for everyone. Most can't break the equilateral setup. Like some others have said, some recordings are hit or miss. I find personally that most sound amazing and my reference tracks give me the "You are there" feeling way more than any other system I've ever heard. This is from the ambiophonics page linked above:

"The question is how to achieve realistic sound with the psychoacoustic knowledge at hand or suspected. For starters, the fact that separated front loudspeakers can produce centrally located phantom images between themselves is a psychoacoustic fluke akin to an optical illusion that has no purpose or counterpart in nature and is a poor substitute for natural frontal localization. Any reproduction method that relies on stimulating phantom images, and this includes not only stereo but most versions of surround sound, can never achieve realism even if they achieve localization."

The bottom line for me is that you can't have one distinct sound coming from two different locations directly to your ears at the same time and expect it to be realistic. That's not how it happens on stage, the sound always come from a single point source, so I don't understand why almost every audiophile bases their system on dual sources for one sound. YMMV

[Bob in St. Louis]

Hey Sean, thank you very much for joining in the conversation. As a user, I'm interested in hearing your words about this whole thing.

I have many questions, but all of them may have become irrelevant after reading one particular sentence on the main website.
It was my understanding that Ambio was useful (beneficial?) for not only music but movies as well.
In reading the Ambio page, I've made it through the Introduction and the Preface (VERY long), but have hit a major roadblock at the beginning of chapter one when it says "Ambiophonics is not suitable for movies, video, or any sound tracks where direct or moving sound sources come from the extreme sides, rear, or overhead."

So.....um.....I thought that was part of the point of the whole thing? 
Also, what's the story behind the Ice Age demo? How does that play into the big picture?

Bob

[Ralph Glasgal]

Ambio also has a financial issues to deal with, even tho Tact is coming out with a $2000 unit that will work for stereo, in order to convert a 4 loudspeaker hometheater would require a $20,000 Tact.

No.  The new TacT Ambiophonic ($1995) is a box that has full facilities for 4.0 surround Sound.  Remember, Ambiophonics never requires a center speaker.  The Ambiophonic has several modes.  One provides full 360 localization in the horizontal plane for movies, video, or DVD concerts that have such sound stages.  It also allows one to listen to ordinary stereo CDs or LPs via the four speakers.  Read why this is a good psychoacoustic idea at www.tactlab.com/Products/RCS22XP/ambiophonic_system.html

At this price the box does not include DTS or Dolby decoders but otherwise it is full home theater processor that not only does 2.x and 4.xAmbiophonics and Panambiophonics but also room/speaker correction, parametric equalization, delay adjust, level balance, etc.

Ralph Glasgal
www.ambiophonics.org

[Levi]

I agree that one does not need to spend lots of $$ to achieve Ambiophonic sound.

Frank who is a member of our group has been demonstrating his Analog Devices DSP for awhile now.  

We had a rave meeting I think it was back in January of 2005 and Frank with his AD proc and a pair MM de Capo i by REFERENCE 3A.  

Stunning!


Frank's Analog Devices DSP


Frank setting up the DSP.

[satfrat]

Ambio also has a financial issues to deal with, even tho Tact is coming out with a $2000 unit that will work for stereo, in order to convert a 4 loudspeaker hometheater would require a $20,000 Tact.

No.  The new TacT Ambiophonic ($1995) is a box that has full facilities for 4.0 surround Sound.  Remember, Ambiophonics never requires a center speaker.  The Ambiophonic has several modes.  One provides full 360 localization in the horizontal plane for movies, video, or DVD concerts that have such sound stages.  It also allows one to listen to ordinary stereo CDs or LPs via the four speakers.  Read why this is a good psychoacoustic idea at www.tactlab.com/Products/RCS22XP/ambiophonic_system.html

At this price the box does not include DTS or Dolby decoders but otherwise it is full home theater processor that not only does 2.x and 4.xAmbiophonics and Panambiophonics but also room/speaker correction, parametric equalization, delay adjust, level balance, etc.

Ralph Glasgal
www.ambiophonics.org

Thanks Ralph for clearing this up, I must have completely misunderstood you. At $1999, this might be worth looking into. And thanks for the Tact link also.

Cheers,
Robin

[Ralph Glasgal]

The system with 36 speakers are impressive, but the setup may turn people off.  I would think that putting emphasis on using no more than 4 (like a current home theater system) speakers may make a better impression on the potential subscriber.  36 speakers are impressive, but they also intimidate.

[/quote]

If you hear a stereo system with $200,000 MBLs do you decide that you must live without stereo?  Like stereo, Ambio works in all price ranges.  But to convert all types of listeners and budgets, I demo with a laptop, the little Bose AM5 speakers and the large electrostatics.  The number of speakers beyond four are used only for concert hall ambience.  If you do not listen to orchestral classical music you don't really need them.  Even if you do like large hall classical CDs and LPs, the two speakers in the rear deliver 90% of the ambience effect via RACE.  You can add extra speakers as you find them in flea markets.  Ambience speakers need only limited frequency response and are never loud.

Ralph Glasgal
www.ambiophonics.org  

[Ralph Glasgal]

I have many questions, but all of them may have become irrelevant after reading one particular sentence on the main website.
It was my understanding that Ambio was useful (beneficial?) for not only music but movies as well.
In reading the Ambio page, I've made it through the Introduction and the Preface (VERY long), but have hit a major roadblock at the beginning of chapter one when it says "Ambiophonics is not suitable for movies, video, or any sound tracks where direct or moving sound sources come from the extreme sides, rear, or overhead." Bob[/quote]

You got me.  When that waas written Ambiophonics was assummed to be limited to two XTC speakers up front and x number of surround speakers as one wished.  This meant that one could not have direct sound coming from the rear.  It was also limited to two channel media.  The term Ambiophonics was originally meant to signify two channel reproduction and Ambiophonics was meant to be the replacement for stereophonics.  Later we went to Panorambiophonics (Panam) or even Periambiophonics (with elevated direct sound) but most of the original texts have not been changed.

Ralph Glasgal
www.ambiophonics.org

[Barry_NJ]

It was my understanding that Ambio was useful (beneficial?) for not only music but movies as well.
In reading the Ambio page, I've made it through the Introduction and the Preface (VERY long), but have hit a major roadblock at the beginning of chapter one when it says "Ambiophonics is not suitable for movies, video, or any sound tracks where direct or moving sound sources come from the extreme sides, rear, or overhead."

So.....um.....I thought that was part of the point of the whole thing? 
Also, what's the story behind the Ice Age demo? How does that play into the big picture?

Bob

Hi Bob, I think I can answer that. It's not that "Ambio" won't work for movies. But it won't really work for two or three people sitting across a couch, well except for the guy in the middle. The "sweet-spot" in Ambio is pretty narrow, and usually movies, even at home, are a communal/family event. Ambio would never work in a commercial theater environment, which is what I think the sentence on the web-page is most referring to.

[sunshinedawg]

Hey Sean, thank you very much for joining in the conversation. As a user, I'm interested in hearing your words about this whole thing.

I have many questions, but all of them may have become irrelevant after reading one particular sentence on the main website.
It was my understanding that Ambio was useful (beneficial?) for not only music but movies as well.
In reading the Ambio page, I've made it through the Introduction and the Preface (VERY long), but have hit a major roadblock at the beginning of chapter one when it says "Ambiophonics is not suitable for movies, video, or any sound tracks where direct or moving sound sources come from the extreme sides, rear, or overhead."

So.....um.....I thought that was part of the point of the whole thing? 
Also, what's the story behind the Ice Age demo? How does that play into the big picture?

Bob

Bob, Ralph can answer your questions better than I. Here is a link to Robin Miller's site that might interest you: http://www.filmaker.com/surround.htm

Sean