Is your class "D" amp better than "A" or "B" ?

geowak · « **on:** 23 Oct 2008, 04:58 pm »

Anyone out there have a nice sounding class "d" amp? If you switched from class "a", "b", or "ab"
and really liked the switch, tell me why and what you have. (Thinking about a Bel Canto series amp that another member enjoys alot.)

Not trying to cause fights.. so be nice!

IronLion · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 05:04 pm »

I actually have never used a "conventional" solid state amp before, but myself and others can wholeheartedly vouch for how good the Red Wine Audio Signature 30.2 sounds. However, as you do point out at the end, any comparisons of better or worse and suggestions in general are so subjective for so many reasons that, well, in the end I think you'll just have to try some for yourself.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 05:05 pm »

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58717.0

mcullinan · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 06:00 pm »

Nuforce SE v2... You must have a good front end though preferably tubes. I use a Supratek Sauvignon. I have yet to hear an SS with as black of a background, as natural with lifelike dynamics and mid detail that I crave. Also good PC and a power conditioner send it up a few notches.

Ive hear them sound bad too. Ive heard the Nuforce sound bright and sharp on the top end. Perhaps it was the associated preamps at the time, plus it was not on a conditioner.

If you are going to own 5K monoblocks, you should have a pre to match in quality to make the Nuforce sing.

Ive hear the D Class Bel Cantos and they have power but dont come close with the mid detail.

The Class A/Bs Ive heard sound pretty damn good! I hear a graininess in them sometimes. Some bottom end bloat perhaps. That generalizes a bit, hehe... I cant really say better but I do believe Class D go toe to toe with the big AB barn burners

Plus I have space requirements and the Nuforce fit the bill nicely.

Mike

sts9fan · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 06:09 pm »

I have messed around with some cheaper Tripath amps. Mostly 41hz Amp6 Basic and modified Trends. I really enjoyed my time with them and bang for buck they are unmatched imvvvvho. I have just finished and started using a Nelson Pass desgined Zen v. 9 Class A 15watt/ch amp and wow I am so happy.
That being said i have never heard any of the big buck class D amps although based on how they sound cheap I am sure with all the upgrades they are world class..

JimJ · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 06:20 pm »

I've never heard a strictly Class B amp, I'd imagine they'd be problems with Xover distortion if it really was biased right at its cutoff point.

A friend of mine recently installed a couple Arc Audio Minis into his car to power his 3-way front stage; IIRC they're Class G, but they're excellent. He had more traditional A/B's in there before, and I'd be hard-pressed to tell a difference. Tiny amps, too.

I've also heard good things about Alpine's PDX series, which is a Class D design.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 06:52 pm »

In the above thread, the Wyreds replaced a Pass Lab X350.5 Class A. I'd stay away from Rowland and PS Audio versions. Each has its limitations. Have not experienced the Spectrons yet.

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 07:04 pm »

Like anything, it depends upon implementation but they can compete with the best amps made in my experience.

It comes down more to implementation of the design and system dynamics along with taste. So much of high-end audio is preference so it is difficult to make absolute statements. I'm extremely pleased with Class D designs when done right and the efficiency makes me feel warm & fuzzy about saving the planet.

Hogg · « **Reply #8 on:** 25 Oct 2008, 12:51 am »

Caveat: This is only my opinion.

I have yet to hear a Class D amp that I liked. Yes, they have tremendous power and drive with exceptional bass. However, I find them generally flat sounding and lacking the harmonics of a good tube or solid state amplifier. I've owned or listened to Tripath, PS Audio, Nuforce and ICE=based designs.

Jim

timind · « **Reply #9 on:** 25 Oct 2008, 01:30 am »

Let me start with a list of some of the amps I've owned for comparison. Roksan Kandy III (AB), Audio Refinement Complete (AB), Portal Panache (AB), PS Audio Trio C-100 (ICE), Classe CAP-151 (AB), NAD C-352 (AB), Bel Canto S-300 (ICE), Linn LK-85 (?) and Bel Canto eVo2i (tri-path).
The Bel Canto eVo2i is the amp that stuck. I don't have the audiophile vocabulary needed to describe my reasoning so I'll say it just sounds right to me. I have used it with a few different speakers and it has yet to show a weakness. Right now I have a pair of Thiel CS1.6s hooked up and they sound better than I expected.
As for the two ICE products I've used, I concur with the usual criticism. A bit too harsh and unnatural sounding.
This amp will stay with me for a while as I feel I'd need to spend more than I'm willing to spend to improve on it's performance. That being said, I'm keeping my eyes open for a good deal on a Red Wine Audio 30.2. I'd like to hear what all the buzz is about there.
If you are really curious I suggest you purchase used so you can resell if it doesn't suit your taste. It's the only way to know.

Rocket · « **Reply #10 on:** 25 Oct 2008, 01:55 am »

Hi,

I have a collection of amplifiers that I still use in my system. One is a highly modified ps audio hca - 2 amplifier. I compared this to a bel canto s300 amplifier and I preferred my hca - 2 to the latter.

I haven't heard the nuforce amps in my system. I am pretty familiar with the bel canto evo amps and I really liked their sound.

I'm currently using a pair of N.E.W. 20.1's in a monoblock configuration and prefer this combination than my hca - 2. I think it is a little more musical and fleshed out compared to the hca - 2.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Rod

Freo-1 · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Oct 2008, 02:53 am »

Well, the Sony DA9000ES reproducing music via firewire input with a SACD encoded disc is VERY close to an actual live event with high quality speakers. Class D done properly can sound tremendous.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Oct 2008, 04:30 pm »

I initially had a nice A/B amp, that ran Class A for most of what I used it for. I then found this place (you know whats coming!) and went through a couple of different amps - mostly Class D, and all digital. Teac Tripaths in various states of mod, Panny receiver, JVC receiver, have heard Trends, Big Joe, Sonic Impact etc.

In the end, for me (and not a comment on state of the art Class D because I have never owned any) I went with an old Class A tube amp. Makes the right music for me in my room.

I do continue to use a Panny digital amp in my main floor HT though, so for me it is horses for courses.

bikes and beats · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Oct 2008, 02:12 pm »

I have a DIY Hypex amplifier I got in the classifieds here, I believe. It uses two 400AD modules. The 400 watts seems excessive, but for my Magnepans I appreciate the power. Simply put, I wanted an amp that could drive them with ease while not killing me will with excess energy costs and heat in my somewhat constrained rack space. I use a Rotel preamp and an unmodified Denon DVD-955S as a source.

Is it better? Its at least as good as my Crown monster amp from the 80's and my previous Odyssey Stratos. In the end I want as much efficiency as possible from my sound system. Until I find a bargain on some 95db+ speakers that promise to equal the Maggies, I won't go to tubes.

-Mike

WerTicus · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Oct 2008, 03:11 pm »

I'm running balanced nuforce mono blocks (8b with updates). A 20 watt class A N.E.W amp was the only other amp that i've enjoyed as much. But the nuforce tops it because of their size, weight, power use, and raw power output. Nothing comes close to the speed and instant power they have.

I really liked the bel canto gear but when i heard the nuforce against them i had to own them, it took me 2 yrs to pay for them as well

rest of the system:

The 8b's are run from foobar via a lynx l22 pro balanced sound card - foo bar handles equalising and upsampling to 96khz.

I have a rythmic open baffle servo subwoofer (3x12incher) to complement the WAR Audio reference one mains. The mains have the raven r1 ribbon tweeter, a ceramic theil and partner (accuton) midrange and a cabasse 8inch honey comb woofer. So the whole system can really benefit from the amps speed as its all setup for it in terms of low mass top end drivers. they sure do sing. I've had the system for 5 yrs now and it never fails to put a grin on mine or anyone's face

That's not to say its the best system in the world, I've heard better ones costing 10x the price, but I think i've really gone far enough past the optimal price / performance point. There is just nothing BAD about it.

rabpaul · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Oct 2008, 12:15 pm »

geowak,
I find it strange that you are asking and getting recommendations on amps when we don't even know what speakers you have.
Like Love and Marriage, Horse and Carriage its always Amp and Speaker taken together.
Some speakers just do better with certain amps (notice I am not even saying A, A/B or D). I can't think of a single Class B amp.

soundbitten1 · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Oct 2008, 01:15 pm »

I had an HCA-2 for a short time . It had some nice qualities but , for comparisons , I favor the sound of the Odyssesy Stratos more in my system .

geowak · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Oct 2008, 05:29 pm »

rabpaul

I have Snell E-5 speakers. Sometimes I just use Monitor Audio BR2 bookshelf speakers. The Snells are 4ohm floorstanders and the MA are 6ohm. The Snell's are not hard to drive.

whell · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Oct 2008, 05:39 pm »

I'm "amplifier shopping" at the moment, and have had a couple of demo pieces through here in the last couple of months. Right now, I'm auditioning a Rotel RB-1092. This is Rotel's 2 channel version of their Class D amp series. Other gear includes Klipsch RF-7's, a McCormick passive pre, and the source is largely vinyl.

I have to say that this is among the best sounding, if not THE best sounding, amp I've ever had in my system. I've tried the PS Audio HCA-2 and their Trio 100, Nuforce's version 9.2, plus some mid-fi amps like Carver, Adcom, etc. This thing is as neutral sounding an amp that I've ever heard. It accentuates nothing and just delivers the goods.

Unfortunately I have to give it back to the retailer in the next day or so because its likely beyond my price range. But man, this was a whole lot of fun while it's lasted! If you can demo one of these, by all means do so.

Jon L · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Oct 2008, 05:50 pm »

Quote from: mcgsxr on 25 Oct 2008, 04:30 pm

..Panny receiver, JVC receiver, have heard Trends, Big Joe, Sonic Impact etc.

In the end, for me (and not a comment on state of the art Class D because I have never owned any) I went with an old Class A tube amp.

Interesting you mention Panny's, JVC's, SI, and class A amps. I think what "makes music" that pleases the listener still has a lot to do with the entire system/room, but especially the speakers. I find the higher-power Panny's and JVC's to do especially well with more "conventional" speakers, often better than low-power class A amps, SS or tube.

On the other hand, some of these low-power tube and SS class A amps can be just the thing for certain speakers, i.e. single-drivers, nice horns, high efficiency, and even headphones.

In the end, I love'em all and regularly rotate through my "amps" depending on my mood: class A, AB, D, T, tube, SS, single-ended, push-pull, hybrid digital, DHT, pentode, etc, etc. Just with a tweak here and cable/tube swap there, I can get them *ALL* to make wonderful music