Compact Hemps impressions

santacore · « **on:** 22 Oct 2008, 02:10 am »

Hi All,

A few months ago I picked up a pair of Compact Hemps second hand. I've been playing them off and on every since and have enjoyed them quite a bit. They are musical, detailed, and image well. I love pretty much everything about them except what I feel is a slight bump in the 1K-5K range. I'm wouldn't call them bright speakers but I feel they get a little peaky in that range. On Louis' recommendation I have switched out my silver cables for copper and it helped a bit, but did not eliminate the problem. I've also tried switching sources with no significant change. So I guess at this point I have to deduce that it's either the speakers or my amp. The amp is a Melody I2A3 integrated. I've run it with other speakers in the past and don't remember having any issues.

I would love to hear from other members who own Compact Hemps, and could describe their sound signature.

Thanks,

John

lcrim · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Oct 2008, 04:48 am »

I have a pair of Compact Hemps and have used them w/ a number of amps. I'm not sure I've encountered the exact issue you describe but I do think that speaker cables can be the solution to your problem.
I first had a Music Reference EM7 Amp w/ an Eastern Electric Minimax preamp and the Compact Hemps and had some erratic but annoying harshness when I tried using the WLM DIY speaker cables. It seemed to be happening only on analog playback and I ended up changing out the cartridge w/o solving things until I thought back to when did the problem begin? I was so delighted w/ the WLM speaker cables that I wrote about it here. It couldn't possibly be those cheap and wonderful cables? I swapped the Anti-Cables back in and no more harsh overtones.
I called Louis and he suggested that I get in touch with Creston Funk at Concert Sound in San Antonio, Texas. He’s the U.S. importer of DNM from England. They makee a flat speaker cable that looks a bit like FM antenna wire, with a fairly small, solid conductor around 22 guage. They were terminated with their own miniature banana plugs. An 8 ' pair was less than a $100 and they smoothed out the sound incredibly well. I tried out Woodsyi's Wavelength Duetto (300B) amp in that system, which proved to be even more dynamic but still smooth. I've got a Glow Audio Amp One (EL84 SEP) there now and I'm quite pleased w/ the sound.

santacore · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Oct 2008, 05:21 am »

Thanks for the input lcrim. I purchased the DNM cables a few weeks ago on Louis' recommendation. Although there was a small improvement, it didn't resolve the issue. I guess I'll have to deduce that it is the amp. Time to try some tube rolling.

el dub · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Oct 2008, 08:37 pm »

Have you tried the other set of binding posts?

Could it be a microphonic pre-amp tube?

lw

Alwayswantmore · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Oct 2008, 11:05 pm »

Quote from: santacore on 22 Oct 2008, 05:21 am

Thanks for the input lcrim. I purchased the DNM cables a few weeks ago on Louis' recommendation. Although there was a small improvement, it didn't resolve the issue. I guess I'll have to deduce that it is the amp. Time to try some tube rolling.

I have compact hemps with the latest hemp driver and an ACI sub and love them. I use Anticable for wire and what I believe to be a copper IC from a small, but well regarded one-man company (Audiotech X-2).

How do you position the speakers relative to your listening position? For starters, you should SEE the inside of the speakers (wood sides) when listening. In otherwords, do not let the driver directly face your listening position. They should be slightly toed out.

Flashman · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 10:05 am »

Quote

I have compact hemps with the latest hemp driver and an ACI sub and love them. I use Anticable for wire and what I believe to be a copper IC from a small, but well regarded one-man company (Audiotech X-2).

How do you position the speakers relative to your listening position? For starters, you should SEE the inside of the speakers (wood sides) when listening. In otherwords, do not let the driver directly face your listening position. They should be slightly toed out.

Kent,

I have not tried the toed-out position with my Compact Hemp speakers. I checked past results on the forum and didn't see others who recommended this. Anyone else want to chime in? I'll try it over this weekend to see how it works. Thanks.

stevenkelby · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 11:15 am »

I think Kent means that they should be slightly toed out compared to having them facing straight at you. ie, still toed in but not too much.

I agree and have found the best results in my room with my SuperHemps on DeepHemps to be achieved by crouching behind the speakers and lining up the inside edge of the cabinet with a spot on my chair behind my head. So when listening I can see a little of the inside edge of the cabinet.

Also, it's absolutely crucial to get the center of the driver at the same height as the center of your ear. An inch either way and the soundstage suffers. I had to measure to get it right, my guesses were way off. Get it right and it all locks into place and the frequency response smooths out too.

If your sppeakers are tilted up it's harder to work out but still well worth it.

Alternatively, if you can't alter the height of your Omegas due to stand limitations etc, try to angle them with bits of something under the front or back so that the center of the driver is pointing at your ear level.

Alwayswantmore · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 12:40 pm »

Quote from: stevenkelby on 23 Oct 2008, 11:15 am

I think Kent means that they should be slightly toed out compared to having them facing straight at you. ie, still toed in but not too much.

That's what I meant.

I see a fair amount of wood on the inside edges, so mine are aligned to intersect considerably behind my listening position (experiment with the angles, and you get a feel for how angle impacts the image and frequency response). I also put a slab of granite on top of the stands, raising speaker height over an inch. And my chair is a recliner, so my ears come down to mid-driver height when listening.

I listen near-field, so even a few inches either way makes a big difference.

I spent several hours playing with positioning to get them to fully disappear. If you have spikes on your stands, take them off for the first round of experimenting with listening positions. It's much easier to slide them around without the spikes.

I also use a tape measure to help get them symmetrical distances from walls, the angles (by measuring the two back corner distances from back wall) etc. Eyeballing this kind of stuff is just not accurate in my experience.

Good luck.

lcrim · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 02:13 pm »

Your room may be causing the condition that you describe. If your room has not been treated perhaps there are characteristics to the room that is causing this emphasis in that frequency range or cancelling enoough of the other frequencies that the 1-5 Khz range stands out by comparison. I have had an Eighth Nerve economy pack deployed for years and I have simply not had to correct for room anomalies for that time.

Flashman · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 12:14 am »

Quote from: stevenkelby on 23 Oct 2008, 11:15 am

I think Kent means that they should be slightly toed out compared to having them facing straight at you. ie, still toed in but not too much.

Thanks, I guess I got caught up in semantics. When I think of toeing, I imagine a dead-on speaker, parallel to the sides of the room, and toe-in means moving the speaker face toward the center listening spot and toe-out means moving it in the opposite direction. So by my definition you suggest toe-in but not so drastically that you cannot see the inside wood of each speaker. Right?

stevenkelby · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 12:18 am »

Yep that's right

Also, Larry's spot on about the room acoustics, all rooms need some treatment, a very wise investment!

Alwayswantmore · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 01:20 am »

yes, sorry about my definition of toe-out, I use it without thinking about how it may be interpreted.

I too have room treatments. I'm in a small room that would not be usable without treatment. In my case I did not want to mess with DIY, so I got GIK. I am very pleased with their service and the product. IMO the price is not bad considering the materials and hassles required to DIY -- especially for their Tri-corners which look and operate great.

There's a blog on my room treatments in the Acoustics Circle here on AudioCircle, if you want to lean more.

Good luck, Kent

R Browne · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 05:31 am »

I don't know the speakers or the room size but one idea that has worked with some speakers and rooms is to toe the speakers so that they cross about three feet forward of your listening position. You might want to give this a try and report back with the results, especially if favorable.

santacore · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 06:15 am »

Thanks to all that have replied and offered suggestions. Although I've never had a problem with other speakers, I'm guessing it's a combination of many factors. My rig is in my living room so I have minimal acoustic treatments. I've already identified a few tubes that seem microphonic and have plans to replace them. The last thing to try is changing the positioning of the speakers. They are currently about 8-9 away, and according to my laser level, shooting right towards my ears. I think the manual recommends no toe in, but I usually bring them in a bit. I've actually been using a guide I got with my Merlins that claims to set a 60 percent angle. I use a laser to mark from the inside of my speakers to where my head would be in my listening position. Overall I've been pretty pleased with the setup and have enjoyed great soundstaging. If I can just knock out this peak I'll be a happy guy.

Keep those suggestions coming and in the mean time I'll keep tweaking.

gbeard · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 12:23 pm »

Having been an owner of Merlins and Omega's, I think I understand the sound you enjoy and perhaps can offer a some further suggestions that might help you tweak things a bit. Really though, they are just rehashings of what other posters here have already said.

I have had my Superhemps in a variety of configurations from short wall and long wall in a long narrow room, extreme near-field in a small room, to near perfect conditions in yet another. Concerning the speakers only (of course stands, room treatments, amps and everything else contribute to the problems and wonderous solutions), there are some general areas that I always fool with to get them sounding sweet. First is the port and whether it is open or closed. Until I upgraded to Alnico's, I always prefered it open. That of course means you must play with how far the speakers are from the back wall. The balance of bass to treble is highly affected, so don't forget to play with sidewall, backwall placement. Also, I have found I always enjoy my Supers more when they are either toed slightly outward (Terrific wide soundstage!) or toed in with the drivers crossing just in front of me. This may be a good solution for you. Also, believe it or not, I have had incredibly good luck with mine set up on the long wall. The stage is huge and imaging is extremely good.

Okay, so nothing here is new or rocket science, but sometimes just going back to basics can make a huge difference. And don't forget, even though you are the second owner they may not be fully broken in. Especially the ferrite hemps, as they take a VERY (hundreds of hours) long time to completely smooth out, but once they do....

Good luck!
gb

Alwayswantmore · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 12:33 pm »

I've spoken with Louis a couple times regarding Compact Hemps and positioning. My understanding is their dispersion characteristics have some commonality with planer speakers (Magnapan / electrostatics). My guess is this is due to the single driver design -- eliminating phase issues.

BTW: Do you have the most recent Hemp Driver (the wizzer cone pictured on Omega's Web site)? If not, call Louis and see if he can offer you favorable pricing to upgrade your drivers. I haven't heard the earlier version, but gather from others' comments, the new driver is significantly better.

Alwayswantmore · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 12:40 pm »

Quote from: gbeard on 24 Oct 2008, 12:23 pm

...even though you are the second owner they may not be fully broken in. Especially the ferrite hemps, as they take a VERY (hundreds of hours) long time to completely smooth out, but once they do....
gb

Excellent point. Likely few speakers on the market respond more to break-in than ferrite hemps!

Alwayswantmore · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 12:41 pm »

stevenkelby · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 01:12 pm »

Good point about the port GB. I played around a lot with it open and closed/near and far to walls etc, and soon learned it's better closed and forgot about it!

Mine are Alnico.

Alwayswantmore · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 01:18 pm »

Quote from: stevenkelby on 24 Oct 2008, 01:12 pm

Good point about the port GB. I played around a lot with it open and closed/near and far to walls etc, and soon learned it's better closed and forgot about it!

Mine are Alnico.

According to Louis, in many cases for Alnicos, closed ports are desirable or even required to get proper bass response. Based on my discussions, I do not think this applies to Compact Hemps with ferrite drivers. It won't hurt to try it, but it may not do what you want. If it does work, please report back.