Monitors for consideration: Proac, Spendor, etc...

randog · « **on:** 17 Nov 2003, 06:50 pm »

I asked this question before but it had the emphasis on my vintage components with no responses. So... I'm trying a new angle.

I plan to audition these speakers but I'm a zillion miles from nowhere so I'd like your feedback first.

I have a vintage SS amp (Mc MC2105) and a tube pre (Mc MX110) and I'm narrowing my speaker choices to those that lean to the 'sweeter' end as opposed to the 'analytical' end so as to match-well-with and not expose the 'vintage' in my vintage components. Ya with me so far?

This is for my master bedroom approx 14' X 19' with little wall space and high WAF. I'm looking at monitors.

So far, I'm leaning towards Proac (1SC or ref8) or Spendor S3/5 (or SE). Any comments on these speakers? How about how they compare to some of the local favorites here? I'm familiar with the GR-Research AV-1 and the Norh 4.0 but would be interested in comparisons of them against the brits. How about the Odyssey Epiphony? What about the Sonus Faber Concerto's? Any others that should be on my short list to audition?

Has anyone directly compared the Proacs with the Spendors? The Spendors get great reviews. I know how a couple of guys here are smitten with the Proacs.

I don't plan to add a sub (hope not) so the depth of these speakers will be a consideration as well.

Thanks,
Randog

Mad DOg · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Nov 2003, 07:57 pm »

i'd definitely recommend u take a look at the Onix Ref1s...they go down quite low (42Hz) so you won't need a sub to get satisfying bass...they are very revealing so they play what your components feed them. analytical in, analytical out. sweets in, sweets out. vintage in, vintage out.

but they are high on WAF...

randog · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Nov 2003, 11:45 pm »

Quote from: Mad DOg

i'd definitely recommend u take a look at the Onix Ref1s...they go down quite low (42Hz) so you won't need a sub to get satisfying bass...they are very revealing so they play what your components feed them. analytical in, analytical out. sweets in, sweets out. vintage in, vintage out.

but they are high on WAF...

Once I get my 1801's finished (for my main rig) I'll have my pair of garbage-in garbage-out speakers

For my bedroom rig I'm looking for a pair that will be more polite and forgiving, i.e: 'sweeter' which is what Spendors are famous for and British speakers are generally stereotyped as. This sounds like a perfect match for my vintage componentry and less-than-ideal source recordings which is at least half of what I play.

These *are* bedroom speakers after all...

Randog

Carlman · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Nov 2003, 12:06 am »

I've heard the smaller ProAC towers and monitors... but, have not heard any Spendor's. When I was auditioning speakers, I kept hearing how 'forgiving' B&W's were... But, I don't know this for a fact. I think your equipment will shine with a nice pair of speakers. The B&W CDM-NT1 sounded excellent and may be worth considering. I would think they'd get a thumbs-up from the missus as well since they come in a variety of finishes.

I compared the ProAc's to my Revel's. The Revel's are analytical, detailed speakers. They will clearly articulate every weakness in your system. Equally, they will articulate all that is good. I'd still suggest a non-Revel speaker for your system... However, I don't like Proac's sound but, that's me... I think it's similar in a lot of ways to Thiel's. Kind of natural and boring.. they don't do a lot wrong or right to my ears. But, the Thiels seem to get all the music right were the ProAc's get some music right.

Try the others suggested if you can... if you get a chance to hear the CDMNT1's, give 'em a listen... I'm assuming you're going to listen to the Spendor's and ProAc's before you buy?

Mad DOg · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Nov 2003, 12:27 am »

too bad we aren't closer to each other...i'd love to hear your ellis 1801s when they're done!

since you're looking for "sweeter", i'd also look at dyn contour monitors...the 1.3mKIIs are very warm...decent cabinet and finish...

haven't heard the spendors or proacs yet...heard the SF concertos and thought they were a bit pricey for what you get...haven't heard the GR av-1 but heard the crits which aren't what i call "sweet" sounding. not sure if the av-1 is voiced similarly to the crits.

BikeWNC · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Nov 2003, 01:04 am »

I have a pair of Vienna Acoustics Mozarts. While they certainaly aren't monitors, their Haydn speakers are. Though the Haydns are not as warm or full sounding as the Mozarts, they are a very smooth slightly warm sounding speaker and when paired with a sub can sound quite full. In fact many people prefer the Haydns with a sub to the Mozarts. The Haydns can often be found used on Agon or Ebay for $500-600.

Andy

toxteth ogrady · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Nov 2003, 02:29 am »

A few of the speakers mentioned above are excellent speakers but I suspect they would be too revealing for most vintage electronics and consequently wouldn't offer the musical enjoyment you're after. Since AudioCircle has very little discussion about speaker manufacturers that don't have a forum here I would recommend you also ask your question in the Vintage Asylum at Audio Asylum. In my expereience there are some speakers that although are voiced more for musicality are also very adept at doing the hifi thing. One speaker that comes to mind is the EPOS ES-14(used). I really really enjoy listening to these classic speakers, whether it be vintage solid state or tubes they are one of my favorites. I would also recommend the EPOS ES-12(used), ES-11(used), M12(new) for incredibly sweet sound in a very compact box. And although considerably more expensive you're right on the mark with PROAC and SPENDOR. Good luck!

doug s. · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Nov 2003, 02:27 pm »

carlman's description of the thiels & the proacs does not at all mirror my experiences w/these speakers. sounds like he's talking about vendersteens, to me!

of the small proacs, i prefer the ref-8-sigs - more revealing & open than the 1sc's. both are still wery musical, revealing & detailed, & quite holographic, ime.

mite also wanna try the new usher audio bookshelves, being adwertized on a-gon, since they're the best monitor under $5k...

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ddspkrmoni&1071251202
http://www.usheraudio.com/speaker-x719.html

doug s.

Tbadder1 · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Nov 2003, 07:40 pm »

Make sure you read Sam Telligs column in this month's Stereophile. He raves about the Harbeth, but is also realistic about its limitations. If you've got power, and you like Jazz or classical best I doubt you can go wrong with these--talk about a proven track record!

Peace Love Dope
Dan

audiojerry · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Nov 2003, 08:58 pm »

Quote

However, I don't like Proac's sound but, that's me... I think it's similar in a lot of ways to Thiel's. Kind of natural and boring.. they don't do a lot wrong or right to my ears. But, the Thiels seem to get all the music right were the ProAc's get some music right.

In just these few statements, I found a great deal of confusion.
"Kind of natural" .... "and boring"?. To me, when someone says a speaker sounds natural, that is maybe the highest compliment that could be bestowed. I interpret this to mean that it sounds like the real thing. Then, in the same sentence it also sounds boring? Does this mean that a speaker is boring because it sounds natural?

Then, in the very next sentence Carlman goes on to say that "the Thiels seem to get all the music right". This again, seems like more very high praise. Yet, they sound similar to the ProAc's, which he doesn't like.

So, if I were to take Carlman's advice, I should avoid speakers "that sound natural", and "get all the music right"? Carlman, is this what you really mean?

For the record, I've auditioned both Thiel and ProAc, I've owned several pairs of ProAc, but never any Thiels, so that indicates my preference there. I've also owned the Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor, and Vienna Acoustics Mahlers. I preferred the ProAc SC1's over both. I've owned B&W's, and the B&W Matrix 801 and 802 are outstanding speakers. Nothing has bettered the 801 in terms of dynamics and power handling. The Nautilus 803 is also great, but these of course are not monitors. The Nautilus 803 monitor was quite rolled off and dull in comparison. Vandersteens are boring to me, except for the Model 5. I never cared for Dynaudio, until the 1.3SE and Special 25 came along - the Special 25 is currently Numero Uno in my book.

If you are going to buy a used speaker without auditioning, I'd recommend either ProAc, B&W, or Dynaudio because they hold their value better, and are easy to resell without taking a big hit.

Carlman · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Nov 2003, 03:06 pm »

Quote from: audiojerry

So, if I were to take Carlman's advice, I should avoid speakers "that sound natural", and "get all the music right"? Carlman, is this what you really mean?
Quote

No. My only advice was for the original poster to go listen to speakers.

Natural is a bit boring to me. I like a lot of detail, bright highs, and in-your-face, forward sounding speakers for myself. I like Kevin Voecks designs. I like it to be very lively and real sounding.

My estimation of what I heard is good for people who like a more relaxed, organic type sound which I equate to "natural" sounding speakers... yes, ProAc's do some things right, Thiels do a lot right but, they aren't for me. I didn't care for ProAc's for many reasons but, it's been too long since I heard them to go into a lot of detail. I've heard Dynaudio's 1.8's which I thought were annoying but, probably great for someone... just not for me.

I'm not tellling anyone what to do, just what I heard.

audiojerry · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Nov 2003, 03:22 pm »

[quote="CarlmanNatural is a bit boring to me. I like a lot of detail, bright highs, and in-your-face, forward sounding speakers for myself. I like Kevin Voecks designs. I like it to be very lively and real sounding.[/quote]

Fair enough. At least this explains your personal preferences and what you want in a speaker. This helps someone looking for advice.

One more point of contention: In your last sentence you said you like it to be "real sounding". To me "real" and "natural" are synonyms. If it sounds real, it sounds natural. If it doesn't sound natural, it sounds artificial instead of real.

No offense... just have some spare time on my hands.

cyounkman · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Nov 2003, 04:42 pm »

Randog,

Depending on when you're buying, you may want to consider the new small monitor from Reference 3A called the Dulcet. My understanding is that it will be basically mini-de capo (9"x10"x13" or so); less efficient, but that doesn't sound like a problem with your gear/preferences. They are supposed to retail around $1500us when released, as early as December, by some accounts.

The latest iteration of the DC has a very smooth top end, which is probably part of what you mean by 'sweeter', although I wouldn't say they're 'forgiving' in the classic old british sense. The Dulcet will run crossoverless to the main driver, so midrange immediacy and transparency should be well in evidence. If you like the midrange of your upstream components, you should hear it. To the extent my outright guesses about the Dulcet's sound are correct, it could be an option. And for more money and a little more space, there's the De Capo...

Also in the price range there are the two monitors from Quad, which might qualify as 'natural' by Carlman's definition. They are, in my experience, much more forgiving than the R3A speakers.