A joke for the Solid State amplifier crowd

Niteshade · « **Reply #20 on:** 10 Oct 2008, 12:33 am »

I **really*** have to point something out to those who have tube-a-phobia:

Replacement tubes _____do not____ have to be expensive. People who spend hundreds on vintage Mullards and the like do so because they collect them and/or have a special amplifier they went to spiff up.

A good matched quad of JJ/Tesla 6L6Gc's is around $70.00 and they will last you at least 3-5 years or more. 6SN7's are around $15.00 each for good ones. Same for 12AX___ series tubes.

May I also remind folks that tube rolling is a pleasure and purchasing a few different kinds of tubes will provide different sound flavors...all for a very reasonable cost.

jules · « **Reply #21 on:** 10 Oct 2008, 12:41 am »

Aw c'mon Niteshade ... the topic is jokes isn't it?

What's the difference between a 300b and an A970 BL8A?

One's large, glassy and vacuous and the other's ... damn, where did I put that thing!

jules

Niteshade · « **Reply #22 on:** 12 Oct 2008, 01:31 pm »

"Hmmmm. . . Does that make me an Investment Advisor?"

I would like to think of a HiFi vendor as an investment adviser. Good point!

Niteshade · « **Reply #23 on:** 12 Oct 2008, 01:35 pm »

"What's the difference between a 300b and an A970 BL8A?

One's large, glassy and vacuous and the other's ... damn, where did I put that thing!"

I don't use printed circuits- but would enjoy seeing a surface-mount mirco tube.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #24 on:** 12 Oct 2008, 02:35 pm »

I am a tube fanatic as everyone here knows but I am also able to appreciate good solid state. Better yet, a combination of both within any given system. The battle between tubes and solid state will never end as it is purely subjective and personal. The same can be said for those who say a digital format cannot sound as good as vinyl......another never ending debate and again, I love both.

There are many good and bad examples of both technologies out there.

Music is about emotion and whatever technology or combination of brings this emotional listening experience to your life is what's best.

I won't get involved in debates as there is no posible conclusion but I do enjoy sitting back and watching them.

I go back to my original statement:

"Build your system for yourself, not the critics"

Niteshade · « **Reply #25 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 12:04 pm »

"There are many good and bad examples of both technologies out there."

I absolutely agree. Along with that- do people look at all manufacturers and not just the big names? People tend to stick with what they know where I believe it's good to learn about everything that's available and never make assumptions based on a lack of information.

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #26 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 01:20 pm »

Tubes or SS?? It's a matter of taste? Not right or wrong? It's about the music and to me that's "NO JOKE"!! aa

Wayner · « **Reply #27 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 01:52 pm »

Having both tube and solid state, I've learned to accept both of them for what they are. They all seem to have slightly different strengths and weaknesses. Poorly designed examples of both will easily amplify their respective flaws. I think it all depends on what mood I'm in and what music I'm listening to.

The real joke (on your self) is denying the one format in favor of the other. Also, where do you put the hybrid designs? Perhaps hybrids sound best listening to Metallica with the orchestra.

Wayner

Niteshade · « **Reply #28 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 02:48 pm »

"The real joke (on your self) is denying the one format in favor of the other. Also, where do you put the hybrid designs? Perhaps hybrids sound best listening to Metallica with the orchestra."

I wouldn't go that far regarding tube technology limitations. Tube technology is extremely flexible, meaning a tube amp can be made to sound like anything you desire, including solid state amps. From a designer's standpoint, this is why I like tubes.

Hybrid designs are excellent when the tube side is the output side. I am planning on making a hybrid design soon- where the voltage amplification and driver stages are solid state.

Some tube amplifiers are excellent for any music format. Remember- never,ever think of tube amplifiers in a stereotypical light. Many modern tube amplifiers will surprise you! My point is: The knowledge base on tube technology is growing and voicing options are near limitless.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #29 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 03:30 pm »

Quote from: Niteshade on 12 Oct 2008, 01:35 pm

"What's the difference between a 300b and an A970 BL8A?

One's large, glassy and vacuous and the other's ... damn, where did I put that thing!"

I don't use printed circuits- but would enjoy seeing a surface-mount mirco tube.

Actually Todd The Vinyl Junkie has done it with his Millet headphone amp and
Prima Luna has done it with their ProLogue 8 CD player....

macrojack · « **Reply #30 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 04:09 pm »

I have a pair of SET monoblocks and a matching tube preamp. One of the amps started popping randomly at an ever increasing rate. So I switched to my JRDG ICE components and went on my merry way. Since I no longer sit transfixed keening for minute distinctions between sounds, I never much cared about the transition except for being glad to have escaped the popping, and liking the new found (rediscovered?) convenience of my SS stuff.

Instead of turning on 2 amps and a preamp and waiting for them to cycle through their safety precautions, I just un-mute my Rowland and the sound appears immediately. At my age, convenience and user friendliness are valuable considerations which I'm sure will increase in value as my age increases.

I feel that tubes are a lifestyle decision like getting a dog. With that decision comes the care and feeding and certain other inconveniences that must be weighed before setting forth on that path. To some it is absolutely worth the bother, and to others it is just not.

The whole tube gospel is overpreached. It is pushed with religious zeal and fervor with no regard for the FACT that there are many of us who have made an informed decision and would like to disregard the tube option.

This thread seems to have been started with the goal of attracting attention to the offerings of a particular company. That may be wholly appropriate and I'm not trying to challenge that effort. I do, however, feel that there is no need or justification for further recruitment. Those of us who want to ply the mysteries and endure the burden of tubes know already where to find them.

Maybe there should be a GLASS CIRCLE.

DTB300 · « **Reply #31 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 06:41 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 16 Oct 2008, 04:09 pm

The whole tube gospel is overpreached.

Agree but it is Tube "Magic" Gospel...you cannot forget the MAGIC term.

Quote

This thread seems to have been started with the goal of attracting attention to the offerings of a particular company.

How true, but at least it was posted in the Industry Talk and Events so we understand their statements better, sales pitch, and where they are coming from. If these folks sold Tube amps and were not passionate about them, one would have to wonder. Everything is the best when you sell it.

As others have posted, there are benefits and drawbacks to both SS and Tube amps for sound, reliability, and maintenance - there is no BETTER, just what each person thinks and likes better - and do not forget about the whole system synergy thing and of course your room treatments.

Wayner · « **Reply #32 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 07:24 pm »

Quote from: Niteshade on 16 Oct 2008, 02:48 pm

"The real joke (on your self) is denying the one format in favor of the other. Also, where do you put the hybrid designs? Perhaps hybrids sound best listening to Metallica with the orchestra."

I wouldn't go that far regarding tube technology limitations. Tube technology is extremely flexible, meaning a tube amp can be made to sound like anything you desire, including solid state amps. From a designer's standpoint, this is why I like tubes.

Hybrid designs are excellent when the tube side is the output side. I am planning on making a hybrid design soon- where the voltage amplification and driver stages are solid state.

Some tube amplifiers are excellent for any music format. Remember- never,ever think of tube amplifiers in a stereotypical light. Many modern tube amplifiers will surprise you! My point is: The knowledge base on tube technology is growing and voicing options are near limitless.

Your _____ is showing.

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #33 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 08:28 pm »

Blair, I would be interested in hearing more about you Hybrid design. You can PM me with details. I would like to see it designed with either 6SN7's or 5687 tubes. Is that possible?

Gary

TONEPUB · « **Reply #34 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 10:01 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 16 Oct 2008, 04:09 pm

I have a pair of SET monoblocks and a matching tube preamp. One of the amps started popping randomly at an ever increasing rate. So I switched to my JRDG ICE components and went on my merry way. Since I no longer sit transfixed keening for minute distinctions between sounds, I never much cared about the transition except for being glad to have escaped the popping, and liking the new found (rediscovered?) convenience of my SS stuff.

Instead of turning on 2 amps and a preamp and waiting for them to cycle through their safety precautions, I just un-mute my Rowland and the sound appears immediately. At my age, convenience and user friendliness are valuable considerations which I'm sure will increase in value as my age increases.

I feel that tubes are a lifestyle decision like getting a dog. With that decision comes the care and feeding and certain other inconveniences that must be weighed before setting forth on that path. To some it is absolutely worth the bother, and to others it is just not.

The whole tube gospel is overpreached. It is pushed with religious zeal and fervor with no regard for the FACT that there are many of us who have made an informed decision and would like to disregard the tube option.

This thread seems to have been started with the goal of attracting attention to the offerings of a particular company. That may be wholly appropriate and I'm not trying to challenge that effort. I do, however, feel that there is no need or justification for further recruitment. Those of us who want to ply the mysteries and endure the burden of tubes know already where to find them.

Maybe there should be a GLASS CIRCLE.

Gotta say, I agree with Macrojack here...

I love the sound of tubes, but doing this every day I get tired of it too. Granted I still have six tubes in my reference
system, I have eliminated the components that had a ton of tubes for the same reason. The dog analogy is perfect.

And I have heard enough great solid state components that I enjoy just as much or more, so I do think it just
depends on your taste.

Well put!

Niteshade · « **Reply #35 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 10:06 pm »

Hi Gary- I don't have a hybrid design to show yet, but it is on the agenda. When I do make one, it won't use small signal tubes. There would be power tubes, such as the 6L6 and they would be driven with transistors.

My present task is to expand the 100% tube line of products and to add on to my upgrades/modifications lists for these products.

Some people have asked for a phono preamp too.

Quote from: DARTH AUDIO on 16 Oct 2008, 08:28 pm

Blair, I would be interested in hearing more about you Hybrid design. You can PM me with details. I would like to see it designed with either 6SN7's or 5687 tubes. Is that possible?

Gary

Niteshade · « **Reply #36 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 10:30 pm »

Tube equipment shouldn't be difficult to use and you shouldn't have to worry about it too much. A good part of my R&D is making tube technology more user friendly. On Ebay I see these old theater and organ amps from the 50's that have been removed and still work. It's true! I've purchased many of them for parts. Their secret was underloading the tubes and/or doubling up on them to regain the power when they need it.

My system: I use my prototype amps in my entertainment system. The amp gets turned on first, then the TV then a DVD gets put into the player. How much easier can that be? By the time the DVD starts spinning, the amp is warmed up and there's no wait.

Longevity note: As long as the power tubes are high quality and properly biased, you should get several years out of them. Small signal tubes don't go bad often at all. FYI: A properly biased tube amp in the 40-60 watt range should NOT feel like a space heater! If it's running really hot, then the bias is wrong.

I cannot see where owning a tube amp has changed my lifestyle.

Something else: Tube amps can be made so you don't have to 'mother' them all the time.

vett93 · « **Reply #37 on:** 19 Oct 2008, 11:15 pm »

I like all tube gears too. But can you find a semi-sanely priced tube power amp for my JMlab speakers?

John151 · « **Reply #38 on:** 19 Oct 2008, 11:29 pm »

And for those of us who can't make up our minds on this topic, the hybrid gear is perfect.

pardales · « **Reply #39 on:** 19 Oct 2008, 11:59 pm »

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