[sanlanman]

I've heard that twine is actually better than thicker rope because of the "skin effect" of larger diameter fibers.  Hemp is worst because the electrons become way too mellow and unfocused during their long strange trip toward the speaker. 

ROFLMAO!!!

[Nuance]

Something recently was published in the medical literature showing that expensive placebo medicine seems to work better than cheap placebo medicine.

RL Waber, B Shiv, Z Carmon, & D Ariely Journal of the American Medical Association vol 299: pp1016-17; 2008

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/299/9/1016

82 volunteers were recruited and paid $30 each to test a new pain killer drug. 41 volunteers were given pills that were said to cost $2.50 a pill, and the other 41 received the same pills, but were told they cost 10¢ a pill. All volunteers took identical placebo pills that had no pain killer at all in them.

Each participant received test electrical shocks at the wrist to identify his/her maximum tolerated pain level.   After that, participants received the test shocks in 2.5 volt increments between 0 volts and their individual maximum tolerated voltage.  They rated their perceived pain on a scale from "no pain at all" to "the worst pain imaginable".  Stimulation at each voltage level was carried out twice for each participant before and after taking the pill.  The change in reaction to the stimulation was assessed.  The group that took the expensive placebo pill clearly thought it worked better than the group that took the cheap pill.



Something similar was found with wine tasting when the same wine was presented to tasters as $90 a bottle or as $10 a bottle http://news.cnet.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html.

Perhaps the makers of expensive speaker cable have known this for a long time, that expensive wires "sound better" than cheap wires.  They seem to make a good living depending on this.

Usual Disclaimer
I do not intend to insult anyone who does have expensive cables or prefers expensive wine.  I only point this out because it is widely understood that differences in price have a genuine effect on people's perception of performance or quality.  Maybe something similar is going on in audio.

I use 12 g zip cord on my SongTowers.

HA - that's just awesome!  Thanks for the entertainment, swerd. 

[jsalk]

Usual Disclaimer
I do not intend to insult anyone who does have expensive cables or prefers expensive wine.  I only point this out because it is widely understood that differences in price have a genuine effect on people's perception of performance or quality.  Maybe something similar is going on in audio.

That's why we're thinking of raising the SongTower prices to around $50,000 per pair.  Then they would REALLY sound good!  aa

- Jim

[R Swerdlow]

That's why we're thinking of raising the SongTower prices to around $50,000 per pair.  Then they would REALLY sound good!  aa

- Jim

If you do that, conventional wisdom has it that one should spend about 10% as much on cables.  Anyone got $5,000 speaker cables?  I’m holding out for those liquid nitrogen cooled, superconducting, oxygen-free unobtanium cables to come down in price  .

Have a good time in Denver.

[saisunil]

Here is my experience:

At one of NY Audio Society meeting at my place, I did A/B switch (two line outs from CD to Pre-amp)
between a Silver and Copper cable from the same brand - it was a clear and HUGE difference - everyone heard it.
Later I also put a Palladium cable and people heard a few db drop in the volume (high resistance).

Blue Jeans makes good cooper cable that is affordable and sounds good, and no it is not the best sounding cable.

I'd agree that putting money in speakers, amp and source is the way to go with an inexpensive cable like Blue Jeans.
You can then tweak your system in your room with different cables - if you wish once the system has broken in and settled and you know the sound of your system.

Cheers
Sunil.

[sanlanman]

"At one of NY Audio Society meeting at my place, I did A/B switch (two line outs from CD to Pre-amp)
between a Silver and Copper cable from the same brand - it was a clear and HUGE difference - everyone heard it.""

Heard what? Huge difference which way? Silver better? Copper better?

[Nuance]

Heard what? Huge difference which way? Silver better? Copper better?

Silver does have lower resistance, but what are the measured differences between the two?  Also, can we actually hear the difference under blind conditions? 

I'd like to see a controlled, double blind test on this subject.  I suspect the results would prove (once and for all) that there are no discernible audible differences. 

No offense to anyone who believes the opposite.  I am on the far agnostics side when it comes to expensive boutique cables. 

[zybar]

Gregg Straley speaker cables.

I used to have cables that cost 10x Gregg's, but couldn't hear an appreciable difference so out they went!

George

[Big Red Machine]

"At one of NY Audio Society meeting at my place, I did A/B switch (two line outs from CD to Pre-amp)
between a Silver and Copper cable from the same brand - it was a clear and HUGE difference - everyone heard it.""

Heard what? Huge difference which way? Silver better? Copper better?

It's easy to hear the delta.  Most coppers will not have the detail on the top end and the bass of silver (solid silver, not silver plated copper).  For IC's I use KCI gold throughout and Ridge Street Silver Ribbon SC's (a whopping 4 feet worth).  I like the body of the gold as the edginess is eliminated over other materials but the soul is still there.  Hey, copper is copper (the oxygen free kind, not the corroding cheap lampcord kind) and 90% of Audiophools use it.  Silver has its place and gold has its place.  My recommendation is the same: find out if copper vs. silver vs. gold is your bag and where in your system.  We can't tell you where and in what combo.  You have to try it for yourself.  But don't waste time deciding on one copper versus another.  I'd bet I couldn't tell the difference between Sound King and Straley copper.  I did have a bad experience with Analysis Plus Silver cables though and most likely was system synergy.

[sanlanman]

I looked at the Ridge Street site. Their SIlver RIbbons are out of my price range, unless we hit on a Lotto ticket.

[zybar]

I looked at the Ridge Street site. Their SIlver RIbbons are out of my price range, unless we hit on a Lotto ticket.

If you want to try a good silver speaker cable at a reasonable price, find a pair of used TG Audio cables.

BTW, you can get an older pair of Poiema cables on Audiogon for a very reasonable price:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablspkr&1228686719&/Ridge-Street-Audio-Poiema-!-6-

George

[Big Red Machine]

As much as I like Robert, I buy his stuff used.

[saisunil]

"At one of NY Audio Society meeting at my place, I did A/B switch (two line outs from CD to Pre-amp)
between a Silver and Copper cable from the same brand - it was a clear and HUGE difference - everyone heard it.""

Heard what? Huge difference which way? Silver better? Copper better?

I wanted to give a general comment about general copper / silver cable question and do not wish to get too much into details, as I do not want to start another cable related war.
Anyone is free to experiment silver vs. copper vs. palladium in their system - I bet most non believers will hear the difference. AT NYAS, we all settled on Copper in the end. Palladium was on the exotic side and silver was too bright - yes - it needed to break in. Almost all gear will sound better in a few months to a year.

It all boils down to implementation / design of the overall cable and how it works in your system to your taste in your room. It is not as much about Silver vs. copper - but it is hard to go wrong with copper in general.

Sometimes the differences are subtle but sometimes the differences are huge.

YMMV

[Philistine]

"At one of NY Audio Society meeting at my place, I did A/B switch (two line outs from CD to Pre-amp)
between a Silver and Copper cable from the same brand - it was a clear and HUGE difference - everyone heard it.""

Heard what? Huge difference which way? Silver better? Copper better?

I wanted to give a general comment about general copper / silver cable question and do not wish to get too much into details, as I do not want to start another cable related war.
Anyone is free to experiment silver vs. copper vs. palladium in their system - I bet most non believers will hear the difference. AT NYAS, we all settled on Copper in the end. Palladium was on the exotic side and silver was too bright - yes - it needed to break in. Almost all gear will sound better in a few months to a year.

It all boils down to implementation / design of the overall cable and how it works in your system to your taste in your room. It is not as much about Silver vs. copper - but it is hard to go wrong with copper in general.

Sometimes the differences are subtle but sometimes the differences are huge.

YMMV

When I was going down the speaker cable audition road the guys at Zu Cables made a similar remark - implementation/design has more impact than the conductor metal used.

When I was looking for speaker cables I was able to get loaner or 30 day return cables from:
Zu/Signal Cable/Nordost/Acoustic Zen/Gregg Straley (20 days) and my home made Belden's.  After a few weeks the one the I preferred became easily apparent.
 
I would try and do the same with your V3's and have the objective of keeping the cost as low as possible while maximizing the sound that you prefer  - with this in mind I would design a test such as the following example:  cable from Home Depot, throw in a Blue Jeans type cable, a mid range cable such as Gregg Straley's and then pick a higher end cable from a mainstream or boutique manufacture such as Ridge Street/Acoustic Zen/Kimber.  This would then allow you to come to your own conclusions as to what works best for you as we all have personal preferences.

Another issue is bi-wire or not - not sure what binding posts you ordered from Jim, but I found bi-wiring my HT3's made difference whatsoever.

[GloP]

As an engineer and a scientist the idea that a cable needs "break in" is absolutely preposterous.

[zybar]

As an engineer and a scientist the idea that a cable needs "break in" is absolutely preposterous.

Please beat that horse elsewhere.

Thanks.

George

[GloP]

I thought the dead horse was the audible differences between cable material. I'm not even touching that one with a ten foot pole. I thought however there might still be hope on the so called "break in"... but I guess you're right if science and engineering had anything to do with it that whole "cable controversy" would have been settled decades ago. I apologize for forgetting that faith and science are immiscible.

[sanlanman]

Well, you know, I am currently using some Tsunami 16gauge "A.C.T. Competition series premium" twisted pair speaker cable and its not bad, (yes its car audio cable). So I doubt I would start with Home Depot wire as the low price point to evaluate. Currently the Tsunami stuff is only feeding a pair of older NHT Super One loudspeakers. The Tsunami has silvered or tinned conductors, each in a translucent yellow or clear sheath, twisted inside a clear outer sheath. That will be the base line for any cable to beat when the V3s are here.

A custom car audio place near me sold it to me cheap several years ago because it was spool end and they could not get anymore, or so they said.

[Big Red Machine]

Would you like to borrow my Poiema Bi Wires for a week?  They're only 4 foot long per side.

[Philistine]

Would you like to borrow my Poiema Bi Wires for a week?  They're only 4 foot long per side.

If this works for you then comparing them with Radio Shack/Home Depot cable would be an inexpensive way to determine if you hear or difference between boutique and cheap cables or not?