[Rocket]

Hi,

I have a friend who keeps pressuring me to buy interconnect cables at $300au each.  Ouch.

Regards

Rod

[I.Greyhound Fan]

If your friend has a pair of $300 IC's then why dont you ask him to bring them over to your house and do a blind test for him to see if he can tell which IC's you have plugged into the system.  You'll have to do this several times to get any useful results.  Of course he just may be afraid that you'll prove him wrong about his cables!

I found it interesting to note that the Parasound amp that I recently bought states in its manual that the parasound will sound as good regardless of what cables you choose.

[KS]

Has anyone tried Audio DiffMaker?
"Audio DiffMaker  is a freeware tool set intended to help determine the absolute difference between two audio recordings, while neglecting differences due to level difference, time synchronization, or simple linear frequency responses.

"The difference recording  that results is only what has changed between the two recordings.  If anything - a change of component, a treatment, mechanical damping, etc. - is having any audible effect on the audio signal in a system, the difference recording will have audible content. The end result is primarily intended to be evaluated by ear. "

If there is no difference in the waveform between test A & test B, there is nothing different to hear.  If there is a difference in the waveform, the difference might be audible.

[Wayner]

The core of the AVA philophy is intrinsic value. A $300 dollar interconnect offers no value to the customer. It in itself is an obstacle to a considered "audio improvement" which really offers no substantial improvement to sound. It may boost ego or allure, but actually victimized the purchaser because of his ignorance of the topic. Money is parted, improvement imaginary, sellers claims unscientific. While these cable manufactureres eek out a living, the cost of promotional hype increases, because the general public will sooner or later put a value on a purchase of such expensive cables and determine that there may not be much improved (if at all) value, or bang for the buck. Better to have spent the money on music.

Wayner

[timind]

The core of the AVA philophy is intrinsic value. A $300 dollar interconnect offers no value to the customer. It in itself is an obstacle to a considered "audio improvement" which really offers no substantial improvement to sound. It may boost ego or allure, but actually victimized the purchaser because of his ignorance of the topic. Money is parted, improvement imaginary, sellers claims unscientific. While these cable manufactureres eek out a living, the cost of promotional hype increases, because the general public will sooner or later put a value on a purchase of such expensive cables and determine that there may not be much improved (if at all) value, or bang for the buck. Better to have spent the money on music.

Wayner

I could not agree more.

[Lancelot]

 Although I don't believe expensive cables are necessary , $300 MIGHT allow for the best RCA or XLR connectors to be used and carefully put together. Even Bryston ( hardly a high end cable believer ) charges $200 a metre for interconnects.

But another point- take Wayner's post , substitute into the comments whatever you paid for your AVA or other high end amp and realize that no DBT or other *scientific test* has shown there to be any difference with that of an inexpensive amp or receiver ( assuming not driven into clipping etc.)

Simply , if you believe that DBT and the scientific method is the ultimate test of audible differences, then I'm assuming you've spent very little on components because there is no *proof* it makes a difference.

Assuming your own high end choices are somehow *correct* and defendable even though it cannot be proven but others who make other choices are perhaps being deluded somehow seems inappropriate to me.

[denjo]

Even Bryston ( hardly a high end cable believer ) charges $200 a metre for interconnects.

Bryston uses Canare cables and Neutrik connectors, not unlike the generic cables which Blue Jeans offers.

[stereocilia]

I like the LC-1, partly because I can order a custom length.  Also, when I was using the OEM cable with my Squeezebox Duet into a headpone amp, I could hear am radio muttering and noise.  Switching to the LC-1 solved that problem.  No need for double-blind multi-center evidence-based peer-reviewed statistical analysis.  Unless...of course...the voices I heard were not from am radio after all...

[Occam]

Lancelot - Great Post!

I do believe the applicable term is 'cognitive dissonance'.

[Toka]

Bryston uses Canare cables and Neutrik connectors, not unlike the generic cables which Blue Jeans offers.

Blue Jeans sells Canare products (the LC-1 are a custom design via Belden), and they also offer Neutrik connectors on their XLR cables (some RCA's use Canare connectors as well). You may be thinking of a different vendor.

EDIT: I think I misread your post.  I just repeated what you said.

[Brett Buck]

The core of the AVA philophy is intrinsic value. A $300 dollar interconnect offers no value to the customer. It in itself is an obstacle to a considered "audio improvement" which really offers no substantial improvement to sound.

    It's worse than that. If they merely did nothing at all, e. g. had identical electrical characteristics to the 79¢ sets you get at Walmart, Radio Shack, etc. then they would just be a rip-off - an egregious one, to be sure, but just a rip-off.

    In some cases, however, the bizarro-world wire construction leading to poor electrical characteristics, out-of-spec RCA plugs, exceedingly stiff to the point that they frequently get knocked loose, etc, they actually hurt and perform worse. The cheapies are nearly ideal - if something else sounds significantly different, it's almost certainly wrong. The best you could hope for in a double-blind test would be "no difference"!

     Brett

[rustneversleeps]

Hmmmm........let see here.....I think I've heard such comment about cable for the.....wait a minute......for at least......oh.....maybe.....hah....four hundred and thirty sixth times....but oh yeah....keep them coming please......more about cable.

[rustneversleeps]

Let's all go out and buy all the blue jean cable, how about that? Then have a blue jean cable party, yeah...they are good quality.... beats the $500 cable that my neighbor's friend has. Yeah man, blue jean cables are so cool, reasonably price and all, not a rip off, let's buy it, buy it, buy, buy, buy baby.

[sueata1]

Try this,,,,,,,
buy about 40 feet of 75 ohm coax cable (solid copper core) and make speaker cables.
I terminated with Dayton banana's,,,,
I guarantee you will hear a difference, for the better,,
give it a try
happy listening
Mel

[Wayner]

I bought the Bluejeans cable because of their mechanical/electrical construction, low capacitance and price. There was no audition, no A/B test.

Wayner

[rms]

Just curious - anybody ever tried Romex for speaker cable duties? Nice large solid copper wire, low capacitance, used to be inexpensive. Are a whole bunch of tiny strands of copper wire better than one big strand? And why do people claim that silver is a better conductor for audio signals? (Or is it?) I suppose the answers to these questions could fill entire textbooks so the short version will do.

[Wayner]

I suspect Romex is not the most purest copper. Silver is a better conductor than copper.

Wayner

[stereocilia]

Just curious - anybody ever tried Romex for speaker cable duties? Nice large solid copper wire, low capacitance, used to be inexpensive. Are a whole bunch of tiny strands of copper wire better than one big strand? And why do people claim that silver is a better conductor for audio signals? (Or is it?) I suppose the answers to these questions could fill entire textbooks so the short version will do.

I tried it once years ago.  It's just too stiff and unwieldy to be practical,  and whatever it did to the sound, if anything, was not an improvement in my opinion.  But again, it was a long time ago.

[avahifi]

The nice folks from MIT cables asked us to do an A-B test of their $1500 a pair super cables with great big boxes built into the speaker lines.  We set up a true double blind test comparing the MIT cables with the ones I was using, especially modified 16 gauge zip cord from Home Depot (especially modified by me - cut to the correct length to reach from the amp to the speakers - very important!!    ).

The results, ran three tests with all listeners sent out of the room and the setup changed by one of my guys who did not take part in the listening tests.  There were four guys from MIT, me, Jim Salk, his wife Mary, and a couple of interested bystanders.  We held the test just after the show ended on Sunday afternoon.

The instructions to the hookup guy were to either change or not change the cables.  The amp volume control was not touched, we listened to the same cut, the first on on the Shelby Lynne album, "Just a Little Lovin'".  We were using my Insight Control amplifier and Insight DAC and Jim's new ribbon tweeter version of the Songtowers. It was as very high definition, transparent, dynamic, and wide range system.

After the first two sessions, in which the cables may or may not have been changed and who knows which were started with, I instructed my guy to definitely swap to the other cables for the third session.  Again no listener knew which they were listening to.

We listened a third time, and then voted.  In a nutshell, the first session received zero votes.  The voting was essentially split between session two and three with the vote divided between the two about equally and among both the MIT guys and the AVA - Salk guys.

Then the moment of truth.  The first session was MIT cables.  The second session was also MIT cables (nothing changed). The third session was my $2.00 zip wire speaker cables.

The results (just as I would have expected)  RANDOM!

I do admit than when I voted, and I voted last, I said that the differences, if any, were very very small, and that I thought that session two (MIT cables) were slightly better than session one (MIT cables), and that I thought that session two was slightly better than session three (zip wires).  I was as random as anyone else there.

So, given the price of the MIT cables ($1500) and the AVA Insight Control Amp ($1500), a buyer could have made the same budget choice of buying Jims's speakers ($2400) and our Insight control amp to drive them, along with some zip cord speaker wire, or buy the speakers and the MIT cables, and no amplifier at all!

Given the results of the test, which would you choose.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[pardales]

 

The nice folks from MIT cables asked us to do an A-B test of their $1500 a pair super cables with great big boxes built into the speaker lines.  We set up a true double blind test comparing the MIT cables with the ones I was using, especially modified 16 gauge zip cord from Home Depot (especially modified by me - cut to the correct length to reach from the amp to the speakers - very important!!    ).

The results, ran three tests with all listeners sent out of the room and the setup changed by one of my guys who did not take part in the listening tests.  There were four guys from MIT, me, Jim Salk, his wife Mary, and a couple of interested bystanders.  We held the test just after the show ended on Sunday afternoon.

The instructions to the hookup guy were to either change or not change the cables.  The amp volume control was not touched, we listened to the same cut, the first on on the Shelby Lynne album, "Just a Little Lovin'".  We were using my Insight Control amplifier and Insight DAC and Jim's new ribbon tweeter version of the Songtowers. It was as very high definition, transparent, dynamic, and wide range system.

After the first two sessions, in which the cables may or may not have been changed and who knows which were started with, I instructed my guy to definitely swap to the other cables for the third session.  Again no listener knew which they were listening to.

We listened a third time, and then voted.  In a nutshell, the first session received zero votes.  The voting was essentially split between session two and three with the vote divided between the two about equally and among both the MIT guys and the AVA - Salk guys.

Then the moment of truth.  The first session was MIT cables.  The second session was also MIT cables (nothing changed). The third session was my $2.00 zip wire speaker cables.

The results (just as I would have expected)  RANDOM!

I do admit than when I voted, and I voted last, I said that the differences, if any, were very very small, and that I thought that session two (MIT cables) were slightly better than session one (MIT cables), and that I thought that session two was slightly better than session three (zip wires).  I was as random as anyone else there.

So, given the price of the MIT cables ($1500) and the AVA Insight Control Amp ($1500), a buyer could have made the same budget choice of buying Jims's speakers ($2400) and our Insight control amp to drive them, along with some zip cord speaker wire, or buy the speakers and the MIT cables, and no amplifier at all!

Given the results of the test, which would you choose.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine