My son is writing an essay in school....

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Spirit

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My son is writing an essay in school....
« on: 2 Oct 2008, 08:38 pm »
..... and the topic is "Why do people prefer the Sound of Vinyl to CD".
Chip off the ol' block!!
He asked me if there was some kind of scientific reason why this is so.
If any of you kind souls have any input, I will pass it on to him.
Thanks

Bob in St. Louis

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nathanm

Re: My son is writing an essay in school....
« Reply #2 on: 2 Oct 2008, 09:45 pm »
But people DON'T prefer the sound of vinyl to CD!  Only weirdos that visit sites like this do, and not even all of them! Heh!  So maybe it should be called "Why Do Some People…" instead.  Nitpicking maybe, but to generalize with a word like "people" would lead one to the obvious conclusion that vinyl lovers are a tiny minority and that MOST people prefer the sound of digital audio.

I don't think vinyl as a storage medium has any scientific advantages at all if you assume that the goal is to reproduce a signal with as little change as possible.  It has increased noise, limited playing time, limited frequency response, requires pre and post equalization, surface is susceptible to dust, poor crosstalk between channels, tracking distortion, requires careful setup, calibration and maintenance etc.

For those who like it, the list of "bad stuff" doesn't necessarily matter in the listening, however.  There's many other factors at work.  The analog\vinyl domain might have more distortion involved but this can be experienced as a positive enhancement rather than a negative one.  We just simply like the non-linearities.  I suspect bass register resonances in a vinyl system can impart a thickening effect to the sound which can sound good.  Perhaps as in a guitar, if there is just enough acoustic feedback through the system it can sound richer.  It could be called coloration rather than distortion since it is more subtle than outright fuzziness.

Other factors might be based on the age of the recording.  Older recordings made before recording equipment became available to the mass market meant that those making them were highly trained professionals.  Older equipment may have imparted a coloration that sounds good.  There's tons of factors besides vinyl as a medium.  I'd say that a better argument could be made about the superiority of analog TAPE rather than vinyl records.  By itself vinyl is a clear loser, but there's so many other factors tied in with it that this is overridden.  But the majority of regular people only cared about pops and crackles, and once digital made those go away they were sold.  They don't care about DVD-A or SACD either because it's just another more expensive CD with an already-solved problem on it.

Other non-audio pro-vinyl factors would be nostalgia, smell, size and tactile quality.
« Last Edit: 3 Oct 2008, 02:42 pm by nathanm »

opaqueice

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Re: My son is writing an essay in school....
« Reply #3 on: 2 Oct 2008, 09:50 pm »
Have him look here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon-Hartley_theorem

If he can estimate (or guesstimate) the bandwidth of a vinyl record and its signal-to-noise ratio (both of which can probably be found on the interwebs), he can use the formula for C to compare vinyl to redbook (CD).  The answer is instructive.

Niteshade

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Re: My son is writing an essay in school....
« Reply #4 on: 2 Oct 2008, 10:38 pm »
Hello- I don't believe there's any scientific reason behind it. CD's have a considerably better dynamic range and frequency response. But- as I'm finding out, people simply like the sound of different technologies for their own reasons. People believe LP's sound more natural. I do have a wrench to throw into the works: New records are still being pressed for enthusiasts. Are those LP's being mastered from CD's?

*Scotty*

Re: My son is writing an essay in school....
« Reply #5 on: 3 Oct 2008, 01:57 am »
CD's do not have better usable dynamic range and they are sharply bandwidth limited to 22.05kHz. Vinyl records on the other hand can have a usable bandwidth exceeding 30kHz
This capability was utilized in the Compatible Discrete 4 (CD-4) or Quadradisc discrete quadraphonic system created by JVC. Vinyl records can have better than a 65dB S/N ratio and their
distortion does not increase as the signal decreases. CD's only have their lowest distortion when the signal is at 0dB,as the recorded level decreases the THD increases because the bit depth decreases with the recording level. By negative 90dB you have two bit transition levels to describe the waveform, obviously it looks like a stair case instead of a sine wave. Long before a negative 90dB signal level is reached you have exceeded 3% THD which is an unacceptable level of distortion in a system that has an allegedly better than a 100dB dynamic range.
Scotty

satfrat

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Re: My son is writing an essay in school....
« Reply #6 on: 3 Oct 2008, 02:18 am »
CD's do not have better usable dynamic range and they are sharply bandwidth limited to 22.05kHz. Vinyl records on the other hand can have a usable bandwidth exceeding 30kHz
This capability was utilized in the Compatible Discrete 4 (CD-4) or Quadradisc discrete quadraphonic system created by JVC. Vinyl records can have better than a 65dB S/N ratio and their
distortion does not increase as the signal decreases. CD's only have their lowest distortion when the signal is at 0dB,as the recorded level decreases the THD increases because the bit depth decreases with the recording level. By negative 90dB you have two bit transition levels to describe the waveform, obviously it looks like a stair case instead of a sine wave. Long before a negative 90dB signal level is reached you have exceeded 3% THD which is an unacceptable level of distortion in a system that has an allegedly better than a 100dB dynamic range.
Scotty


You forgot that with vinyl you also get that familiar popping & scratching,,,, for which came the old saying "you sound like a broken record". :lol:



Cheers,
Robin

opaqueice

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Re: My son is writing an essay in school....
« Reply #7 on: 3 Oct 2008, 05:01 am »
CD's do not have better usable dynamic range and they are sharply bandwidth limited to 22.05kHz. Vinyl records on the other hand can have a usable bandwidth exceeding 30kHz
This capability was utilized in the Compatible Discrete 4 (CD-4) or Quadradisc discrete quadraphonic system created by JVC. Vinyl records can have better than a 65dB S/N ratio and their
distortion does not increase as the signal decreases. CD's only have their lowest distortion when the signal is at 0dB,as the recorded level decreases the THD increases because the bit depth decreases with the recording level. By negative 90dB you have two bit transition levels to describe the waveform, obviously it looks like a stair case instead of a sine wave. Long before a negative 90dB signal level is reached you have exceeded 3% THD which is an unacceptable level of distortion in a system that has an allegedly better than a 100dB dynamic range.
Scotty

Like I said, just check it with Shannon-Hartley.  It's very easy, and you've got all the numbers you need in your post right there.  I won't spoil the suspense by telling you the answer.

And by the way, 30kHz is a stretch.  Maybe the first time you play a record, but not the tenth.

Ethan Winer

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Re: My son is writing an essay in school....
« Reply #8 on: 3 Oct 2008, 02:18 pm »
He asked me if there was some kind of scientific reason why this is so.
I usually stay out of vinyl discussions, but since you asked...  :lol:

I think Nathan nailed it. As for why people prefer the sound, I believe it's due to the "thickening" (for lack of a better word) effect due to distortion. It's the same for analog tape. Unless a music track is already very thick and dense, the distortion added by vinyl (and tape) can be a pleasing effect. It's not higher fidelity! But it still sounds good. I wrote a short article about this for a recording type magazine a while back:

Gaining an Edge - with Subtle Distortion

--Ethan