[robinje]

Wow, you have a lot of speakers.  Nice bedspread!   

[Zero]

Rob - Most of the gear is not in the picture..   How oh how did it ever come to this?   

Oh, and thanks!

[Nuance]

Well folks, the SongTowers (en walnut) arrived this afternoon.  I must say that I am very impressed with the attention to packaging detail, literature, and all the other extra goodies included with the Song Towers. Of course, it's no secret that Jim's craftsmanship is first rate...they look fantastic!    I took a quick snapshot of a Song Tower sat to the Totem Acoustic Sttaf..  The difference is quite laughable! Pardon the extremely crappy picture..  I wasn't going for accurate color/tone..  just to capture the differences in size;

Rob - Most of the gear is not in the picture..   How oh how did it ever come to this?   

Oh, and thanks!

WOW!  Can I come over?   

[DMurphy]

WOW!  Can I come over?   

Me to?  I don't suppose you live in Bethesda, MD. 

[Merle]

OK, I'm convinced. I'm ordering a pair in walnut! Can't wait to have them!

[Zero]

Hello Dennis,

It was a pleasure to shake hands over at RMAF.  I'm roughly 3 or so hours south of Bethesda...  so, erm, thats kinda close? hehe

Merle,

Congrats!  While they don't do all the things that your Arro's can do - I think you'll be pleased with your purchase.

[timjthomas]

Zero,

Any direct comparison between the Totem's and Song Towers?  I have Totem Arros with a Jolida 1701a integrated amp -- listening primarily to classical music at relatively low volumes.  But when I put in blues (my other love), the volume comes up a bit 

My room is 15' wide by 21' long and then continues on into the dining room -- so it's fairly large, but the listening position is about 12 - 15' from the speakers.  The speakers are in front of my large bay window and out about a foot.  The left wall (looking at the speaker) is continuous from the window the entire length of the house from family room into the dining room.  From the speakers / window, the right hand wall opens immediately into the front foyer & front door.  The wall then continues and opens again at the back of the house into the kitchen.

Which speaker, Songtower or HT3, would be better for my room and musical preferences? 

Before making any decision, I'd plan to visit Jim, but just wanted everyone's thoughts.

Thanks.

Tim

[fsimms]

Which speaker, Songtower or HT3, would be better for my room and musical preferences?

I can't compare the Totem, but I am familiar with both the Songtower and the HT3.  By all means, go with the HT3's.  They are so exciting with acoustic instruments.  I have had HT1's for 5 years and am still in awe almost every time I play them.  The Songtower and HT3 are both stellar on voice, but the HT1 has a more unamplified sound.

Bob

[BrianM]

Agree for classical music- if they're in your budget, get the HT3s.

I might be wanting a more powerful amp than the JoLida to control the woofers, though.  Ideally, that is.  I know Mark/carusoracer has a JoLida tube amp among others (I think it's 50 watts) that he's fed his HT3s with, so he'd be able to advise you on that aspect.  When spending that kind of money, how happy the marriage of amp + speakers will be is an important consideration.

[Zero]

Alright boys, it took some time to get published, but the review on the SongTower's is finally up at  www.sonicflare.com 


Tim - Wow, I honestly did not see your post until this very moment.  My personal take echo's the responses you've already received.  Although the SongTower is adept at playing classical music (or any other kind of music for that matter), the HT3 will give you a lot more of what you're looking for.  Extension. Precision. Dynamic Range. Delicacy and Power..   all the things that make for a great experience within the classical genre and all the things the HT3 can deliver. If you decide to go this route, I'd encourage you to upgrade your amplifier to something that has more power and dynamic headroom than the little Jolida hybrid integrate.

[R Swerdlow]

Alright boys, it took some time to get published, but the review on the SongTower's is finally up at  www.sonicflare.com

Just finished reading it - wow!  Another excellent review  .  In fact, of all the SongTower reviews I've seen so far, I think yours has the most intelligent analysis.

Sean - you ought to announce this review properly.  Post it here as a new thread.

[Zero]

Hello R Swerdlow,

Thanks for the kind words!  I am going to hold off making any announcement, just in case Jim want's to do the honors at his forum.

[Nuance]

Just finished reading it - wow!  Another excellent review  .  In fact, of all the SongTower reviews I've seen so far, I think yours has the most intelligent analysis.

Sean - you ought to announce this review properly.  Post it here as a new thread.

+1.  I said this over at AVS (dunno if you hang out there), but it's also the best review I've read thus far.  I like how detailed and informative it is, and that you aren't shy about mentioning what you thought the faults of the SongTower's were.  Its no perfect speaker (what is), but what is does for the asking price puts a huge smile on my face. 

Any change you'll get to hear the ribbon version, Zero?  I think you'll find that the instrument timbre accuracy and HF airiness is much more realistic with the ribbon.  My opinion, of course.    Also, have you heard the HT3's?  From your comment above it seems that you have, but I may have misunderstood. 

[Zero]

Thanks for taking the time to read my review, and of course, for the wonderful feedback! 

I've only encountered the HT3 on two occasions.  Once at RMAF 08' and another time at a bud's house in San Diego. I hope to one day spend some quality time with the SongTower RT, as I strongly suspect that it reaps all the gains inherent to a well designed and implemented ribbon driver. You have some great speakers Naunce (of course, I don't need to tell you that!  ). I'm sure they'll bring you many years of joy, or at least until you inevitably hop into the HT3!

[Nels Ferre]

That was an extremely well written review, better than my own. My only comment is that the bass response is better than the review indicates, and certainly more than one would expect from a pair of 5" drivers.

[Art_Chicago]

Zero,

I second Nels's opinion on the ST bass (not that he needs it  ). With my Van Alstine's Solid State amp the bass response of ST is just great. It is musical, articulate, deep and so on. The SPL in the room is essentially flat from 40 Hz, covering the bottom end of double bass and viola de gamba. These instruments sound outstanding through ST!
What concerns me about your review is the fact that you talked about the bass of ST a lot, however you did not mention the bass of Totem Staff, your reference speakers. They have only one 5.5" driver, and it is hard to imagine that they produce deep bass. In fact, the review in the positive feedback is pretty straitforward regarding their lack of going deep. http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue10/totemstaff.htm

Regards,
Art

[Zero]

Thanks for the comments and criticisms Nels and Art!

Personally, I find bass to be a tough topic to touch upon, particularly when it comes to speakers that depend on small drivers to produce lots of it.  I find that a listeners perception of bass hinges entirely on their prior encounters. For example, one of the first 'real' speakers I ever bought was a set of Polk Audio LSi-15 towers ($1699.98) that were eventually replaced them with the Totem Acoustic Sttaf. When I stepped into the Totem's, it was immediately clear that they could in no way match the Polk's ability to dig low and hit hard.  Naturally, that wasn't much of a surprise considering the Sttaf relied on one driver to do midrange and bass duties while the Polk's had the advantage of two mid woofers and a large 8" woofer. Does this mean the Sttaf's have poor bass extension and output? Absolutely not. Going into it, I knew that the manufacturers had completely different goals in mind with their respective products. The Polk's were built with home theater performance as a priority, whereas the Totem's were built as a music-first design.  When evaluating electronics, I feel its paramount for people to bear in mind what a product was designed for and how well it achieves its design specific goals.  In the case of the SongTower's, I made it clear that the SongTowers do offer great bass performance considering their driver compliment. However, I also wanted to clarify that your impression of its bass will hinge entirely on personal expectations gleaned from previous experiences with like products. Compared to most similar sized towers I've come across, the Songtowers fall short when it comes to raw output and extension. It's not that they lack those assets, its simply that a trade-off had to be made with that design. Either you get good bass extension and output to gain exceptional speed, clarity, and balance  -  or you sacrifice the latter for the former.  Personally, I think Dennis and Jim made the right choice.

To address your concerns over the Sttaf: The reason why I focused so much on the SongTower's bass performance is because, well, it was a SongTower review, not a Totem Sttaf review. Both speakers are fantastic, and completely opposite of one another in terms of presentation. I felt the main differences highlighted in the review were far more important than deducting specifics on how the two differ with regards to reproducing bass. I figure that "bass heads" will find themselves adding a sub to the mix with either speaker. However, now that it's been brought up, I will add my personal take on the matter:

Both speakers dig to an honest 40Hz. The difference is that the SongTowers bass is cleaner, more resolute and sports a more gradual and polite roll-off, whereas the Sttaf is more colored (warm) and has sharp roll off beyond 38-40Hz. On one token, this warmth gives the Sttaf a sense of greater density. Although the Sttaf gives up the ghost before the SongTower's do in terms of extension and output, I feel that it does better at recreating the scale and tone of an instrument in the critical 40-60Hz region.  Here's the compromise though, if you throw the Sttaf into a medium to large room (or any space that has wide openings to other spaces), you quickly lose that capability. The speaker is simply not as versatile as the SongTower is. However, under ideal conditions, the Sttaf and its little 5.5" driver still manages to do a few things the SongTower cannot. When you consider the man behind the design, it's not too surprising. After all, Vince Bruzzese was one of the pioneers that taught the industry that you could achieve great bass from a small enclosure with his model 1.

Still, when you get right down to it, the SongTowers hits a whole lot harder than the Sttaf's.  You can simply "feel" the music more with the SongTower's. Although I feel that they begin to lose density at/around the 50Hz mark, their unique enclosure allows them to dig well into 30Hz territory (my guesstimate would be 35 or so Hz). The bottom line is that I cannot imagine too many people being disappointed with either speakers bass performance. What gives the SongTower such a big advantage is its overall versatility, which is in my mind, the mark of an excellent loudspeaker. Although it doesn't take much to get 'good' sound from the Sttaf, you really have to give it the right type of room and match it with the right type of electronics to truly extract its mojo. When you do, it's an exceptional performer. With the SongTowers, you really don't need to worry about all that stuff.  Just pay some attention to positioning and away you go. It's a super easy speaker to play with and get good sound from, and a product you simply don't have to make too many excuses for. 

Wow, it looks like I just wrote a second review.  Alrighties, it's time to float away from the PC for awhile! 

[Nuance]

Zero,

I found that to be a great explanation, even if it was another mini-review.  Thanks!

I have a question about the "boxiness" comment in the review.  Do you mean they sounded like a typical box speaker in that most box speaker designs don't remove all the resonance, or that the SongTower's didn't "disappear" in your listening room?  It seems that you linked it to the width of the sound stage, but I may have misunderstood.

[Art_Chicago]

Zero,
Nice explanation, indeed. Should be added to your review as an addendum
Art

[Zero]

Hey Naunce,

Thanks.  You know, describing the box-less sound is actually quite difficult, or at least for me it is.    

Since you asked though, I will take an honest stab at it.  When I reviewed the SongTower's, I compared them directly to five speakers: Totem Acoustic Sttaf, Totem Acoustic Forest, Martin Logan Vantage, Mark and Daniel Maximus Mini's, and the Polk Audio LSi-15's.  Of the group, the hybrid-electrostatics had the most open and unrestricted sound. Their lack of box coloration (from 400Hz on up at least) gives them a presentation that almost 'floats' in the air, much in the way real un-amplified music does. That in a nutshell, is the box-less sound. The ability to sound free of your own enclosure/source.

The SongTowers were designed using the traditional method of using a super thick enclosure to  help deaden the adverse affects unwanted resonance can cause. The benefit is that when done right, the sound can become extremely refined and clean. However, no matter how good the design is, I find the compromise to these thick enclosures is that it never lets the music truly breathe in the way a real instrument does. In my mind, its analogous to going from a standard acoustic guitar to one whose body is made of 2 inches of solid MDF. Alright, so that analogy is a loose one and can be picked apart.  Still, I hope the main body of my perspective was delivered. Most of the times, box speakers inherit their enclosures coloration. To date, I've only heard a few box speakers that could manage to pull off the illusion of being free of their own enclosure. Granted, there's still a lot of stuff I have yet to hear!