[GreatDane]

Thought I would offer a follow-up to this thread. Some of you guys will already know that I picked up used BP-20 (in perfect condition - it seriously looks like it had never even been taken out the box).

I am indeed blown away by the sound quality of my system now. One thing Stu mentioned I can really identify with. With my Rotel as a pre, the soundstage always sounded a little unbalanced. It seemed to be left-of-center. Like Stu, I thought this was due to my room. Now with my BP-20 the soundstage is dead center, and very wide.

I was listening to music last night and it was a very addictive experience.

[bummrush]

Yes a good pre amp is very necessary,and like you said addictive,it can transform your system,i've got a coda and a yr later it still amazes me.

[vegasdave]

ptiJean,

If you have to go the internet route, get whatever you can afford that has the features you need.  Newer is better, but not night and day better.  Bryston is Bryston.  Their sound hasn't changed much - in a very good way.  The newer stuff has more features like remotes, more inputs, and so on.  The newer stuff also has more warantee, which should be factored into the price/value of the individual piece.

Yeah, but getting used is not supporting the company. Getting used equipment is always a risk. Yes, I know Bryston will fix it, but do you really want to be without your unit when you can be enjoying it?

I disagree with the notion that the newer stuff is not night and day better. I think it's the best sound to date, and I bet it will get better as time goes by.

[corndog71]

Having owned the B60 for several years now I've had the opportunity to mate it with different preamps and while the B60's preamp section is very good I've been able to get even better sound using various tube preamps.

My current favorite is a highly modified Bottlehead Foreplay II.  This combo has fantastic synergy and gives me a very involving sound.  The current Foreplay III is even better from what I've read.  I even did a comparison for a friend and he agreed that while the B60 as a whole sounded fantastic, the tube preamp gave more life to the music whereas the B60's preamp section seemed a bit dry in comparison. 

[Stu Pitt]

vegasdave,

I agree with what you're saying about buying used, from the internet, etc.  I'm under the impression that the poster didn't have the option of buying new from a local dealer.

In regards to the old vs new pre-amps, maybe I should elaborate a bit more.  Bryston's 'House sound' (if you can really call it that) hasn't changed much if at all throughout their history.  A .5B pre-amp isn't going to sound like a completely different pre-amp than a BP-26.  The BP-26 will be significantly better, but its pretty obvious they both came from the same place.

The newer stuff is better.  The BP-26 is better than the BP-25.  Night and day?  Not to my ears.  But everyone's ears are different.  One person's night and day difference is another's subtlety.

[danman]

I also agree with what Stu said concerning internet sales but sometimes buying new is not easy for some. I bought a used 4B-ST that was referred to me by James himself and I did buy a used (well actually new because it was never used!) BP-20 from James as well that came from the company directly. He is actually responsible for me getting into Bryston in the first place and I will not look back! Great stuff!

I am actually thinking of getting 2 7B-ST's to power my Martin Logan Quests on the used market and selling my 4B-ST. I think thay would better power my speakers especially with the difficult loads they can pull. However, I cannot be sure of this because I will not be able to demo my theory. The other possiblity was getting a newer 4B-SST model. Maybe some of you experienced owners can give me your opinions. I would think that going with the monoblocks would be the logical solution.

To make light of this, the used market can be good becuase many of us will experiment with used than decide to buy new (as is my plan). Customer satisfaction is a key element for Bryston and that makes for good business.

[James Tanner]

Hi All,

Interesting comments.

One of the major complaints I get from our Dealers and Distributors is that Bryston does not change it's models enough over time. If customers buy old gear because the see it as just as good as new gear the new marketplace dries up.

The 20 year warranty also prevents customers from buying new - so they tell me.

james

[danman]

Not sure if I agree totally with your dealers because the fact that you do have a 20 year warranty should be a reason for a consumer to want to buy! Your equipment is also very well priced considering the quality of construction and sound. Changing models for the sake of change is not a solution.

I notice that at least half of the used market seems to be the newer models and not just the old therefore, someone is buying them! I really hope you do not decide to abolish the 20 year warranty because of what some dealers tell you? This should be one of the best selling points they could use!

[ian.ameline]

James,

Bryston is one of the truly great companies. All of my bryston gear was bought new (amp, pre, dac), but the *reason* I bought bryston (besides great sound) is because the products *last* and Bryston stands behind their products. I just can't see myself spending this kind of money without knowing that the investment will stand the test of time. It's also nice to buy from a company that understands customer service. I have almost certainly not bought my last bryston.

If you drop the 20 yr guarantee, and start changing the gear every 3 years, you will loose who you are. Don't do it.

[James Tanner]

James,

Bryston is one of the truly great companies. All of my bryston gear was bought new (amp, pre, dac), but the *reason* I bought bryston (besides great sound) is because the products *last* and Bryston stands behind their products. I just can't see myself spending this kind of money without knowing that the investment will stand the test of time. It's also nice to buy from a company that understands customer service. I have almost certainly not bought my last bryston.

If you drop the 20 yr guarantee, and start changing the gear every 3 years, you will loose who you are. Don't do it.

I promise I won't.

james

[danman]

Thank you from all of us! 

[vegasdave]

vegasdave,

I agree with what you're saying about buying used, from the internet, etc.  I'm under the impression that the poster didn't have the option of buying new from a local dealer.

In regards to the old vs new pre-amps, maybe I should elaborate a bit more.  Bryston's 'House sound' (if you can really call it that) hasn't changed much if at all throughout their history.  A .5B pre-amp isn't going to sound like a completely different pre-amp than a BP-26.  The BP-26 will be significantly better, but its pretty obvious they both came from the same place.

The newer stuff is better.  The BP-26 is better than the BP-25.  Night and day?  Not to my ears.  But everyone's ears are different.  One person's night and day difference is another's subtlety.

Well, there's always Audio Advisor for new equipment if no local dealer. As a matter of fact, there is no Bryston dealer here in Las Vegas. So, I telephone ordered from 2 separate dealers in Southern California. One was a pro audio dealer and the other was a home audio dealer. Both gave me good deals on the new units.

So that's it for that part.

The rest...I know what you mean. I wouldn't doubt that there's similarities between older units and newer units.

I agree that everyone's ears are different. I'd say the new stuff is the best, but that's my view.

[vegasdave]

I also agree with what Stu said concerning internet sales but sometimes buying new is not easy for some. I bought a used 4B-ST that was referred to me by James himself and I did buy a used (well actually new because it was never used!) BP-20 from James as well that came from the company directly. He is actually responsible for me getting into Bryston in the first place and I will not look back! Great stuff!

I am actually thinking of getting 2 7B-ST's to power my Martin Logan Quests on the used market and selling my 4B-ST. I think thay would better power my speakers especially with the difficult loads they can pull. However, I cannot be sure of this because I will not be able to demo my theory. The other possiblity was getting a newer 4B-SST model. Maybe some of you experienced owners can give me your opinions. I would think that going with the monoblocks would be the logical solution.

To make light of this, the used market can be good becuase many of us will experiment with used than decide to buy new (as is my plan). Customer satisfaction is a key element for Bryston and that makes for good business.

See my post above. Other than that, I stand by what I said in my original post.

[alexone]

vegasdave,

I agree with what you're saying about buying used, from the internet, etc.  I'm under the impression that the poster didn't have the option of buying new from a local dealer.

In regards to the old vs new pre-amps, maybe I should elaborate a bit more.  Bryston's 'House sound' (if you can really call it that) hasn't changed much if at all throughout their history.  A .5B pre-amp isn't going to sound like a completely different pre-amp than a BP-26.  The BP-26 will be significantly better, but its pretty obvious they both came from the same place.

The newer stuff is better.  The BP-26 is better than the BP-25.  Night and day?  Not to my ears.  But everyone's ears are different.  One person's night and day difference is another's subtlety.

Well, there's always Audio Advisor for new equipment if no local dealer. As a matter of fact, there is no Bryston dealer here in Las Vegas. So, I telephone ordered from 2 separate dealers in Southern California. One was a pro audio dealer and the other was a home audio dealer. Both gave me good deals on the new units.

So that's it for that part.

The rest...I know what you mean. I wouldn't doubt that there's similarities between older units and newer units.

I agree that everyone's ears are different. I'd say the new stuff is the best, but that's my view.

hi, vegasdave!

if you say that the dealers gave you good deals on the new units...what do you mean exactly? is it like that they sell it for less?

thanx,

al.

[vegasdave]

Yes, I got a great discount on the 4bsst from the pro audio dealer. The home audio dealer. not so much, but it was for less.

[Stu Pitt]

Vegasdave,

I think we're on the same page, just different ways of expressing it.  Regarding the poster who was looking for used stuff online - he's in France.  I don't think Audio Advisor or anyone else here is going to ship him some stuff.  Add to that the voltage conversion (if any?), and he's probably better off buying second hand in Europe.  That is of course if he can't find a dealer to deal with face to face.

On a side note, I can sympathize with the guys who buy second hand.  I bought my B60 second hand.  Why?  Because I couldn't afford a brand new B60 at the time.  If I could have, I would have.  Buying my B60 used has given me a very good impression of Bryston and how they do things.  I'm currently saving up for a NEW BDA-1.  Had I not bought my B60 second hand, I wouldn't own their gear and would be looking for a different DAC.  So in the end, Bryston being who they are and as supportive of people like myself, will get customers like me who will put of buying something else so they can save up their money for a new Bryston.  After owning my B60, I totally understand why Bryston charges what they charge and can justify spending the money to myself, even if it takes a while longer to come up with it.  Had I not been able to buy the B60 second hand, I highly doubt I'd even contemplate buying the BDA-1. 

[vegasdave]

I see what your saying. That does make sense. I agree with the notion that if buying used, at least you become a Bryston owner and customer.

[Viajero5000]

Hi All,

Interesting comments.

One of the major complaints I get from our Dealers and Distributors is that Bryston does not change it's models enough over time. If customers buy old gear because the see it as just as good as new gear the new marketplace dries up.

The 20 year warranty also prevents customers from buying new - so they tell me.

james

James, perhaps you can share this with your dealers: the first time I got a Bryston amp and hooked it into my system, i thought my ears would bleed; it sounded so harsh, thin and bland that it physically hurt my left ear to aching.  So I sent emails to the speaker manufacturer, an alternative amplifier vendor (indicating interest in buying if they could tell me about a voltage conversion), and you to discuss the issue. The other amp guys responded around 10 days later; the speaker guys haven’t responded to date; I received your reply within a couple of hours. I was quite surprised that a VP was actually working with me on the weekend to sort out my issue, and I was able to significantly remove the harshness eventually thanks in part to your valuable assistance. Needless to say, given the box churner that i am, the speakers have long since left my system, i never bought the other amp, but I’ve always had a bryston amp in my system ever since. I don’t even want to consider any other amps now, and specifically buy Bryston whenever my budget affords, even though it's very expensive given my income (I have no such brand loyalty to any other brands due to the aforementioned reasons). Just the fact that a company will put its money where its mouth is for the next 20 years sends out a very powerful signal of what I'm getting myself into.

So perhaps in the short term its a bad thing offering a warranty, but it does wonders for long term customer loyalty, at least in my case. As far as new models go, it is of course great to introduce something that is an improvement, but throwing out model after model for the heck of it is not a good idea at all. Musical Fidelity is an example of a company which follows this strategy, and customers don't care for it since they know they’ll be sitting on a huge capital loss as soon as the next model hits the shops, and end up not buying at all. Rolex doesn’t change its models significantly for years; does that mean that its sales get hammered every time a new Casio hits the shops?

[James Tanner]

Thanks for the feedback viajero5000 - much appreciated and I will pass it along.


james