[robinje]

Hello.  I am a Rega Saturn owner and am pretty happy with the unit as a whole.  It sounds great and is a pleasure to use.  But...  I am intrigued about all the dedicated external DACs on the market these days and the Insight has my interest.  Do you think the Insight DAC would be a worthwhile upgrade over the built-in DAC on my Saturn?  I could sell the Saturn and use the funds for an Insight DAC and cheap CD player as a transport.  The logistical downside is that this would add another "box" to my system and I'd be stuck with the user interface and likely chintzy mass-produced build quality of the "cheap CD player used as transport".  I must admit that the Saturn is a solidly built machine that I actually enjoy using and listening to.  I'm just curious if you think this is a wise path to take, or should I stay with my enjoyable and well-regarded Saturn?  No, I can't afford to keep the Saturn to use as a transport...   

[sueata1]

Just Dumped a Cambridge 840C for one and am never looking back,,,

Happy Listening,,,,Mel

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I'm getting ready to dump my 840c for the Insight DAC as well.  Any one want to buy an 840c thats 9 months old for $1K?  Was $1400 new.

[rustneversleeps]

No, I wouldn't pay 1K for a 9 month old Cambridge 840c.

I paid $200.00 for my Cambridge Azur 540c, I believe it has the the Wolfson chips (don't know the model number, however), it's the same brand of chip that Frank uses in his new differential, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong.

In long term comparison with the AMC CD8B, and the Cambridge Azur 540c, my AVA Ultra is more satisfying, but I wouldn't call it a night and day different. The Ultra is supposed to be the top of the line. With all the recent raves about the Insight DAC here, unless the Insight is considerably better than the Ultra, I wouldn't call it a fair trade off, just take a look at the price difference between the Ultra and the lower discontinued Cambridge model.

The Cambridge offers more bangs for the bucks, how's that? Unless you want something better.

[TjMV3]

I also own the Rega Saturn (as well as the Apollo). 

I don't know about the Insight DAC,  because I haven't heard it.

But I will say that it would be difficult for me,  personally,  to give up my Saturn.   It's a wonderful sounding player and it exhibits a certain natural,  yet warm...almost organic timbre that I love and appeals to my own personal  tastes/preferences.

The Insight DAC does have me intrigued. 

[robinje]

I also own the Rega Saturn (as well as the Apollo). 

I don't know about the Insight DAC,  because I haven't heard it.

But I will say that it would be difficult for me,  personally,  to give up my Saturn.   It's a wonderful sounding player and it exhibits a certain natural,  yet warm...almost organic timbre that I love and appeals to my own personal  tastes/preferences.

The Insight DAC does have me intrigued. 

Yeah, I hear ya on the Saturn's excellent sound.  Since I live in MN, maybe I should just ask Frank if I could bring my Saturn over to his place and try to compare it to the Insight DAC.  Of course, hearing the Insight in my own system would probably be more beneficial since I am accustomed to the way my system sounds.  That would require buying the Insight, though, and returning it if I don't think it's for me.  I don't know if I could do that.  I mean, I'd have no problem returning a low end mass-produced CD player to Wal-Mart, but I sure would hate to bring something back to Frank knowing that he personally put so much effort into making sound as good as possible and surely must be very proud of.  That's just me, I guess...

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Hey Rusty,  The 840c is worlds apart from the 540c and 640c.  You cant even compare them.  Only the 740c is similar and I auditioned the 740c in my home against the Marantz SA8001 and 840c and picked the 840c for its superior detail, resolution, tight bass, more accurate treble and 384kHz up sampling as well as separate DAC's for each channel, XLR outputs and torroidal power supply.  It can also be used as a DAC for other digital equipment.

Now with that being said.  Franks DAC's blow the 840c out of the water.

Robinje,  I've been to Franks twice to audition his equipment and in fact was there today.  I will be going back on monday to bring my Parasound Halo A21 amp to compare to his amps and then I will make a decision on whether to buy a DAC and or Preamp.  Frank was gracious and kind to let me do this as he enjoys auditioning equipment, especially when his sounds better.

Listen to the Insight DAC.  Its has a wonderful rich sound with deep bass.  The hybrid and tube DAC's have less bass but slightly more transparency and smoothness as you go up in price.

[sueata1]

Greyhound,,,,,,,

fully Agree,,,,,also the 840C is a $1600 player now,,,,the Insight just about 1/2

Happy Listening,,,
Mel

[Zheeeem]

Since I live in MN, maybe I should just ask Frank if I could bring my Saturn over to his place and try to compare it to the Insight DAC.  Of course, hearing the Insight in my own system would probably be more beneficial since I am accustomed to the way my system sounds.  That would require buying the Insight, though, and returning it if I don't think it's for me.  I don't know if I could do that.  I mean, I'd have no problem returning a low end mass-produced CD player to Wal-Mart, but I sure would hate to bring something back to Frank knowing that he personally put so much effort into making sound as good as possible and surely must be very proud of.  That's just me, I guess...

Sounds like a plan.  Take your Saturn over to Frank's and compare.  If, in Frank's system, you like the Insight better than the Saturn, then buy one.  If you then plug it into your own system and you like it less than the Saturn, then return it under the 30-day moneyback.  After all, that's why it's there.

I reckon Frank is somewhat pragmatic about his guarantee.  It's inevitable that some folks will use it. 

I've run an AVA DAC for many years - currently an Ultra and an Omega before it.  To tell the truth, moving from an all-in-one CDP to the Omega was probably the single biggest improvement I've made in the past 20 years.  Of course, that was nearly 15 years ago when onboard DACs frequently left much to be desired.  I also like having the mechanicals, leds, remote control, and other of the parts most likely to fail all contained in a cheap transport-only CDP.

[rustneversleeps]

Hey Rusty,  The 840c is worlds apart from the 540c and 640c.  You cant even compare them.  Only the 740c is similar and I auditioned the 740c in my home against the Marantz SA8001 and 840c and picked the 840c for its superior detail, resolution, tight bass, more accurate treble and 384kHz up sampling as well as separate DAC's for each channel, XLR outputs and torroidal power supply.  It can also be used as a DAC for other digital equipment.

Now with that being said.  Franks DAC's blow the 840c out of the water.

If that's the case, then either my 540c sounds better than your 840c, or the Insight sounds better than the Ultra.

[Ericus Rex]

If you choose to go with seperates consider getting an original Rega Planet to use as your transport.  My understanding is it's a pretty stable mechanism and makes an excellent transport for not-alot of money.  Never heard an AVA dac, sorry.

[pearsall001]

I had the Ultra DAC for quite some time & absolutely loved it. Extremely musical & very pleasing to me. Then I took a gander & gave the CA 840C a listen. The rest is history...the Ultra is long gone & the 840C is keeping me very happy & content. The extra bonus of having digital inputs even makes it more appealing & a superb piece of gear.

That's what's great about this hobby...there's no wrong decisions, just different depending on what sounds good to you. Enjoy the music!!

[oneinthepipe]

I had the Ultra DAC for quite some time & absolutely loved it. Extremely musical & very pleasing to me. Then I took a gander & gave the CA 840C a listen. The rest is history...the Ultra is long gone & the 840C is keeping me very happy & content. The extra bonus of having digital inputs even makes it more appealing & a superb piece of gear.

That's what's great about this hobby...there's no wrong decisions, just different depending on what sounds good to you. Enjoy the music!!

I auditioned the 840C in a dealership, rather than my home, in A-B comparisons to other CDPs prior to owning an Insight DAC.  I had heard so many good things about the 840C that I would have purchased it on the spot except that it sounded "metallic," for lack of a better term.  I thought the details sounded artificial, almost like the 840C anticipated what "should" be there musically and extended the sounds electronically, like a "creation and equalisation" function.  The music was overly bright, and the 840C hissed.  In the dealer's system, which used Rotel amplification and B&W 800-something humongous floorstanders, I would have found it very fatiguing.  I actually preferred the Rotel CDP.  It didn't have the 840C's detail, thankfully, since to me, the 840C's detail sounded so bad.  In another system, the 840C might really shine.  It appeared to be very well made and had a plethora of features.  Not tank-quality, like AVA gear, but very good for a mass-marketed piece of equipment.

I also auditioned a 540C at the same dealer.  It was dull, compared to the 840C, but still metallic.

Frank, when are you going to build a CD transport?

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Rusty have you even listened to the 840c?  And it doesnt use wolfson DAC's, it uses Anagram Technologies which was specifically developed for the 840c.  The 540c is an entry level CDP.

As far as the sound of the 840c, yes it is slightly bright,  and dry like the typical British sound, it sounds better with my Maggies and Adcom amp then it does in Franks system with his Salk speakers.  There is definitely no synergy there.

[pearsall001]

I had the Ultra DAC for quite some time & absolutely loved it. Extremely musical & very pleasing to me. Then I took a gander & gave the CA 840C a listen. The rest is history...the Ultra is long gone & the 840C is keeping me very happy & content. The extra bonus of having digital inputs even makes it more appealing & a superb piece of gear.

That's what's great about this hobby...there's no wrong decisions, just different depending on what sounds good to you. Enjoy the music!!

I auditioned the 840C in a dealership, rather than my home, in A-B comparisons to other CDPs prior to owning an Insight DAC.  I had heard so many good things about the 840C that I would have purchased it on the spot except that it sounded "metallic," for lack of a better term.  I thought the details sounded artificial, almost like the 840C anticipated what "should" be there musically and extended the sounds electronically, like a "creation and equalisation" function.  The music was overly bright, and the 840C hissed.  In the dealer's system, which used Rotel amplification and B&W 800-something humongous floorstanders, I would have found it very fatiguing.  I actually preferred the Rotel CDP.  It didn't have the 840C's detail, thankfully, since to me, the 840C's detail sounded so bad.  In another system, the 840C might really shine.  It appeared to be very well made and had a plethora of features.  Not tank-quality, like AVA gear, but very good for a mass-marketed piece of equipment.

I also auditioned a 540C at the same dealer.  It was dull, compared to the 840C, but still metallic.

Frank, when are you going to build a CD transport?

That's exactly why I never make a decision on any gear based on how it sounded at the dealers. Any good dealer worth his salt will let you take it home for a spin in your system. At home, in your room, with your speakers, cables, etc. is the only way to honestly critique a new piece of gear. If you never got the 840C home, you really are grabbing at straws coming to a conclusion.

[oneinthepipe]

I had the Ultra DAC for quite some time & absolutely loved it. Extremely musical & very pleasing to me. Then I took a gander & gave the CA 840C a listen. The rest is history...the Ultra is long gone & the 840C is keeping me very happy & content. The extra bonus of having digital inputs even makes it more appealing & a superb piece of gear.

That's what's great about this hobby...there's no wrong decisions, just different depending on what sounds good to you. Enjoy the music!!

I auditioned the 840C in a dealership, rather than my home, in A-B comparisons to other CDPs prior to owning an Insight DAC.  I had heard so many good things about the 840C that I would have purchased it on the spot except that it sounded "metallic," for lack of a better term.  I thought the details sounded artificial, almost like the 840C anticipated what "should" be there musically and extended the sounds electronically, like a "creation and equalisation" function.  The music was overly bright, and the 840C hissed.  In the dealer's system, which used Rotel amplification and B&W 800-something humongous floorstanders, I would have found it very fatiguing.  I actually preferred the Rotel CDP.  It didn't have the 840C's detail, thankfully, since to me, the 840C's detail sounded so bad.  In another system, the 840C might really shine.  It appeared to be very well made and had a plethora of features.  Not tank-quality, like AVA gear, but very good for a mass-marketed piece of equipment.

I also auditioned a 540C at the same dealer.  It was dull, compared to the 840C, but still metallic.

Frank, when are you going to build a CD transport?

That's exactly why I never make a decision on any gear based on how it sounded at the dealers. Any good dealer worth his salt will let you take it home for a spin in your system. At home, in your room, with your speakers, cables, etc. is the only way to honestly critique a new piece of gear. If you never got the 840C home, you really are grabbing at straws coming to a conclusion.

It's wasn't an audition in my home with my equipment, but it was a very honest critique.  I merely critiqued the 840C's sound at the dealer with the dealer's preamp, amp, cables, speakers, etc.  Issue for me that it wasn't the better CDP, subjectively, when used with the identical equipment at the dealer.  That's what is great about this hobby, no wrong conclusion, unless it doesn't agree with your conclusion about honesty in critiquing, obviously.   

[pearsall001]

Hmmmm....let's see, maybe an hour or so at the dealer or 30 days in your system. That's a tough one. 

[rustneversleeps]

Rusty have you even listened to the 840c?  And it doesnt use wolfson DAC's, it uses Anagram Technologies which was specifically developed for the 840c.  The 540c is an entry level CDP.

As far as the sound of the 840c, yes it is slightly bright,  and dry like the typical British sound, it sounds better with my Maggies and Adcom amp then it does in Franks system with his Salk speakers.  There is definitely no synergy there.

Nope, I have never listened to the 840c. 540c IS an entry level CD player, and a very darn good one retail for $350.00. I caught it on sale 2-3 years ago for $200.00. Price for the Ultra is $1500.00, I bought mine used at a very, very good price, so I did not pay the $1500.00. Side by side comparison, the Ultra wins, but look at the price.

I feel like Julian Hirsch, "this CD player sounds every bit as good as it measured at it's price."

If the 840c sounds better than the 540c, then it should be even closer to the Ultra. If the Ultra beats the 840c by a wide margin, than my 540c sounds better than the 840c. If the Insight sounds much, much better than the 840c, then the Insight sounds better than the Ultra for a lower price.

The AMC CD8b also cost me $200.00 seven years ago, and I have hard time telling how much the Ultra is really better than the CD8b. I use the CD8b as the transport for the Ultra, and with it's audio output connected to one pair of the Pas 4i's inputs jacks, to compare it's sound to the Ultra, all I have to do is to turn the selector switch four knotches down from the CD input jacks, very easy. Again, I wouldn't call it night and days difference. Again, it's only my opinion, I don't have your ears, nor your pride of ownership in a CD player.

For the gentleman who said he listened to the 540c in the dealership, could you specify what year? From what I understand, the 540c has been discontinued for about three years, and not too many dealers carried the 540c even than in the U.S.

[oneinthepipe]

Rusty:

It was three-four months ago, maybe.  Spearit Sound in Boston.  Here, it is listed on their web site, if case someone doesn't believe me or wants to buy one.  It's on sale, too.   

http://www.spearitsound.com/Cambridge_Audio/cambridge_audio_540cv2.asp

Hmmmm....let's see, maybe an hour or so at the dealer or 30 days in your system. That's a tough one. 

Whatever you say.  I'm sure that you are narcissitic correct.  That's what is so much fun about this hobby; everyone can reach their own conclusion provided that they agree with you or your methodology. 

Of course a 30 day in-home audition is better than an hour at a dealer; why in the world would you argue that?  There isn't anyone who would disagree.   


Frank, I think this thread has headed toward the Intergalatic Wastebin.  Regardless, I'm done with the armchair warrior.

[robinje]

Since I started this thread, I'll end it...

I have temporarily decided to keep the Saturn since: a) it sounds good to me, b) I already own it, and c) I can always upgrade to an external unit later as DAC technology and implementation continue to evolve (i.e. when my Saturn becomes "outdated").  Maybe I can find a way to get some Van Alstine stuff into my system via a new amp or preamp instead of a DAC for now.  But...  that's another thread.

Thanks for all your replies...