My rant for today

sbrtoy · « **on:** 15 Sep 2008, 10:55 pm »

I felt compelled to submit this to the Audiogon forums...doubtful it will make it past their monitors heavy censorship, but I know a lot of people on here use A'gon as well, see below...

"I have been on Audiogon for a long time, and for the most part the people I have dealt with have been great to deal with. Lately however the site seems to have changed with people showing little if any integrity in their dealings and feeling it is ok to try to steal every piece of equipment listed.

Examples, two of my currently listed products (which I have listed for at or near half of original retail and are less than 6 months old) have received multiple offers at around HALF of asking price. I have tried to remain professional but how does anyone think it is polite to make an offer like that?? Of course to compound it several of these people have also sent multiple questions which I have taken time to answer thoroughly before making said offers.

Audiogon is built upon a group of people passionate about audio and trustworthy in their dealings...is anyone else concerned about the changes happening on here?"

miklorsmith · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Sep 2008, 10:59 pm »

It's a buyer's market on Agon these days. Those offers are ridiculous though.

dyohn · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Sep 2008, 11:02 pm »

Audiogon has become simply a higher-end EBay.

loki1957 · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Sep 2008, 11:20 pm »

And what about the jerk that came to my house to hear a pair of speakers I had for sale on Agon. He came and listened, told me he'd take them, never heard a word. I emailed him and he said he'd put a check in the mail and have me deliver them next week. Guess what, he never followed through. And it wasn't that he couldn't afford a 1500.00 pair of speakers(5000.00 when new). The jerk pulls up in a new BMW 7 series.

nathanm · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Sep 2008, 11:51 pm »

Lowball e-mail offers suck, but why feel insulted? Just say no, or ignore it. Eventually you might have to come to the unpleasant realization that the market won't bear your asking price. Or someone might pony up. The best advice is to figure out what you want and plan on keeping it. I know, that kinda shakes up the whole apple cart, but it's true. Either that or buy stuff that already has high resale value. There's only one piece of gear I own that I know I can get a good resale price for, unfortunately I can't bear to part with it. Everything else would be a big loss. For the most part swapping hifi gear a lot is an exercise in money wasting. Ooh, that was really cynical…sorry.

jrebman · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 12:44 am »

Sam,

Couldn't agree more. While recently trying to sell my VPI turntable, one of the first offers I got was ridiculously low -- by many hundreds of dollars -- and came with a guy with one agon transaction to his name -- just completed days before, and a negative one at that. Great way to start off -- don't pay for an auction item you win and then two days later turn around and offer an established member peanuts. I told the guy he really should attempt to rack up some positive feedback before lowballing anybody else.

And the number of people who I take time to answer questions in great details for, and get extra pictures for and who never even acknowledge it, is also staggering. Common courtesy seems to be on a steep downfall the past few years.

Long story short -- I did get my price on the table and should be paid on Wednesday.

There are a lot of good guys out there, but a lot of schmucks as well -- acknowledging emails is always the first clue for me.

The absolute worst deal on agon was when I sold a pair of amps and the guy kept asking for just a wee bit lower price each time. I had no choice as time was running out and I needed the cash, so I finally accepted his lowball offer -- which he took over a week to get to. The bastard then tells me he wants overnight fedex service and pays the same amount extra as was the difference between my original price and his final offer, when he could have had the amps days earlier had he just paid me something close to what I was asking.

I know who he is and I will not sell or buy anything from him again, and that he can count on.

As long as we're ranting

.

-- Jim

timind · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 01:17 am »

I'm guessing the post never made it on Agon.
The recent influx of new members there asking exorbitant prices is another recent phenomenon. Every time I see a 6-year-old mid level piece of gear with an asking price that's 75 or 80% of the original MSRP I'm tempted to email them with some advice. Where do these people come from?

viggen · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 01:24 am »

I think there are people who are making a living buying low and selling high on Agon. I sold an item to one of these individuals before. I had bought the item for $600 and sold it to him for $600, and he tried to sell it for $800.

sbrtoy · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 01:49 am »

Quote from: nathanm on 15 Sep 2008, 11:51 pm

Lowball e-mail offers suck, but why feel insulted? Just say no, or ignore it. Eventually you might have to come to the unpleasant realization that the market won't bear your asking price. Or someone might pony up. The best advice is to figure out what you want and plan on keeping it. I know, that kinda shakes up the whole apple cart, but it's true. Either that or buy stuff that already has high resale value. There's only one piece of gear I own that I know I can get a good resale price for, unfortunately I can't bear to part with it. Everything else would be a big loss. For the most part swapping hifi gear a lot is an exercise in money wasting. Ooh, that was really cynical…sorry.

Well I do agree with this statement, however I am also a dealer and the offer I got was on an almost new Cary 303/300 for $1000, which I would categorize as insulting since MSRP is $4000. I guess the thing is people buy audio gear from desire and excitement, not reason and while their used gear may be in great shape and sound good if they cannot get any money for it the whole market collapses and the hobby becomes even more costly and less fun.

I know the economy is not rosy, but it also seems silly for people to think it is a fire sale. It just seems it is the lowest common denominator that tries to prey on people in these times. If I really did have to sell this piece, I would frankly feel very taken advantage of.

mcullinan · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 02:03 am »

Quote from: viggen on 16 Sep 2008, 01:24 am

I think there are people who are making a living buying low and selling high on Agon. I sold an item to one of these individuals before. I had bought the item for $600 and sold it to him for $600, and he tried to sell it for $800.

I think Ive seen the same with vacuum tubes. Most sellers are waay overpriced compared to the going rate besides that.
Mike

Bill Baker · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 02:03 am »

I don't use A-gon like I use to. Maybe a trade in or something. You spend half the day answering questions only to never hear from them again. Then there is the low-ballers who I simply ignored. I can handle people asking for slight break or even some help on shipping but when they offer you half of your asking price........ it's plain rude. I would much rather give a good deal to a fellow Audio Circle member.

soundbitten1 · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 03:18 am »

I don't see used prices coming down too much . I sold an amp on A-Gon for the going price about 6 or 7 years ago . Today it sells for the same price !

cujobob · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 03:41 am »

On Audiogon and on several forums, I see people buying low and selling high...I understand the desire to make a few bucks, but its a hobby and on forums that are for people sharing that hobby, why not let someone have a good deal?

pardales · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 03:48 am »

I've been buying and selling on Audiogon for about 10 yrs. Yes, the overall quality of interactions has degraded a bit--evidenced mainly by poor communication and low-ballers. It is still the only game in town for buying/selling in this hobby though. With the soft economy I have found that things are taking a little longer to sell. Patience is usually rewarded though. Easier to sell gear priced under 1k.

I've been regularly participating on AC for over two years now. Not sure why, but in that time the overall cost of my system has come way down and enjoyment of my system has gone way up.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 03:57 am »

Quote from: pardales on 16 Sep 2008, 03:48 am

I've been regularly participating on AC for over two years now. Not sure why, but in that time the overall cost of my system has come way down and enjoyment of my system has gone way up.

Sweet

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 04:14 am »

I'm not ticked over the tire kickers - they've always been there and with less-than-stellar economy at hand in the US, the offers are trending down. That's how the market works - primarily motivated by supply and demand

What really ticks me off over Audiogon is that despite rising costs for transactions the past few years, the software hasn't kept up. It has the same functionality as 2004 or so and could use an upgrade. It is total bs that you cannot mention a www. address in your ad to link to, either.

I've sold something like 6 of my 8 last items the past few years right here on AudioCircle....you just have to market the item right, give reasons galore, respond to PM'er and questions in the posting and put a fair price on it. The Trading Post (or, Marketplace) really works here at AC, you just need to market your item on it well.

John

chosenhandle · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 02:23 pm »

I usually put something like "serious inquiries only" in my audiogon ads. I choose to ignore low-ballers. If they get ticked and send a second email, I refer to that statement in my ad. I don't get into pissing matches with them (as much as I would like to), I just try to keep moving....

loki1957 · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 03:16 pm »

Has anyone had any luck on Ebay?

Steidl Guitars · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 03:38 pm »

Sam, someone offering $1,000 for that Cary CDP is either wildly optimistic or a creep. Because I can't tell which, I might reply with a simple "Thanks for your offer, but no."

Because I've been thinking about a Cary 303/300 for a few months, I've watched A'gon pretty closely for that player (including your listing) and other players in the price range. Few or perhaps even none have moved when listed at $2,000. Several have been slow to move (couple of weeks, min.) when listed between $1,750 and $1,850 and a couple of those included high quality NOS tubes.

Even a Cary 306 listed at $3,000 took three weeks to sell and that is a great deal. I'm not sure if it is the economy, increased interest in PC-based audio or universal players, but nice redbook players have been very slow to move.

Don_S · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Sep 2008, 03:47 pm »

Unfortunately I have to agree with sbrtoy. The number of low-ball offers I received from my last three Audiogon "adventures" seemed much larger than previously. And they were even more ridiculous than usual.

I make it a point to ignore low-ball offers no matter how many times that individual contacts me via Audiogon. If I reply they will know my personal email address and I do not want anyone but serious buyers to be able to contact me directly.

I have never enjoyed the Audiogon experience, consequently I have accumulated about $9K worth of equipment (5 pieces) to sell but do not feel it is worth putting on Audiogon. I also have some smaller items (interconnects) but the increased fees and poor responses I get from Audiogon ads makes me not want to bother.

I have advertised some items on AudioCircle but did not receive any responses. At least I did not get any low-ball offers. Circle members ignored me with class.