[WerTicus]

Loudnesswars 1 - My ears 0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

Real shame they decided to ruin an otherwise great album with utterly stupid mastering for ipods

[WerTicus]

just ran a quick check in sound forge to confirm what i already knew.

[Russell Dawkins]

I think the snare is a little too loud in the original - and way too soft in the compressed version. This is a conservative example of compression - I have seen (and heard) much worse, where the level meter stays almost unflickering between -2 and 0dB for the duration of the tune.

In the usual small venue with a live band with a drumkit, the snare is the usually the loudest acoustic element, and the sound man has no choice but to bring the rest of the band sound up to approximately match the acoustic sound of the snare. If he were to really match the acoustic snare level, the whole thing would be much too loud, so the snare ends up predominating.

The only time I've heard a good mix with a live band in a small/medium size room was when the drums were either electronic (as in trigger pads) or half  isolated by a plexiglas screen.

[Andrikos]

What's a snadman?

"The day that never comes" rocks major @$$!
Can't wait for the 12th!

[nathanm]

It makes me sad because I don't see how this trend will ever be reversed.  Every rock\pop album sounds like this now.  It's a given that if you buy an album which was made within say the last five years or so, it will be totally crushed.  It makes me not want to buy new music because there's zero audiophillic value.  You can't sit and listen "into" these albums because every sound is flat and blaring.  I gave up on Metallica a long time ago, but they used to sound GREAT.  I just wonder if there will ever be a backlash.  Is this going to be the defacto recording technique from now on?

[Russell Dawkins]

I don't think this will last.

It seems to me the worst of this came about when seriously powerful multi-band compressors became affordable to the unwashed masses. The first of these was about 12 years ago and the offending device's name was the t.c. electronic "Finalizer". I myself lusted after one.

This thing filled many a would-be mastering engineer with glee, because you could finally really please that client who would bring in to the mastering session the loudest CD in his collection and say "Can you match this??". Now, he could!

Fueling this trend was the mistaken notion that it needed to be very loud and compressed not to sound too quiet when the song came up in rotation on the radio. This ignored the existence of very powerful levelers/compressors/limiters at the station put there for the very purpose of evening out the variations in level of the various things being played, plus providing the transmitters with a signal that would take maximum advantage of the 50,000 watts that they were licensed for. By sending out an average of, say, 49,000 watts, they will be more inclined to rise above the background noise and be noticed in a sea of competitors.

These days, however, there is a growing realization among mixing and mastering engineers of the potential advantages of less compression, like - you can turn it up (oh, happy days!) without driving yourself out of the room.

From time to time I check in on the mastering forum at gearslutz dot com and see clear evidence of this trend. Sound engineers are always looking for some edge and at the moment, using less compression is a popular thing.

I never used much, but I am using less than ever, too.

[nathanm]

The metal world needs more use of ribbon mics, PZMs and good sounding rooms.  More stereo miking too.  Cripes, just recording my own guitar playing at low volume with my SASS mic makes me giddy at how realistic it sounds coming back through the speakers.  You get the thump and everything.  I can only imagine how much nicer it would be at a louder level.  You NEVER hear this kind of guitar sound on ANY metal record.  Never.  I guess it's just not fashionable.  I like for the sound to have a sense of place and not just be a disembodied noise emanating from somewhere in your head.

[JoshK]

Very much agree Nathan.  Some of the progressive metal albums are a bit better than average. 

I am listening to In Flames - Come Clarity because it keeps getting so much good buzz.  However about half of each song is a complete jumbled mass of noise with no distinction between any instrument.  It may be intended but I really don't think so.

[drphoto]

Hey Russell, I run live sound for a few bands and the thing I have to keep up with, volumewise, is the cymbals, not the snare. The drummer in one band I work with plays really hard so I have to run every thing else thing way louder than I'd like to match the cymbals.  Lot's of bands I hear live are way too bright. I work really hard to make sure I'm not drilling holes in anyone's eardrums. 

I work w/ another band that uses all electronic drums and cymbals and it's great, because I have total control.

[Russell Dawkins]

Yeah, I've done a little live sound, too, and remember often reaching to pull the fader for the snare mic down only to find it was already right down!

For a while I was obsessed with bringing to market a 3 panel hinged plexiglas enclosure with a large hole in the front panel of the right size to let the kick head poke out. I figured this would kill 2 birds with one stone - keep the drumkit levels down and reinforce the kick so you wouldn't need a mic in many cases, plus the kick saps a lot of power from the PA amp and speakers.

This would then become an open baffle arrangement for the kick and should sound pretty fine, I thought!

Maybe this should be in the OB circle!

[drphoto]

Well, we've tried to talk the hard playin' drummer into plex shields but he won't have it for some reason. He's one of the best drummers I've heard, at least for some a local cover band (I'm mean he can really do justice to Neal Pert stuff) so we put up with him. 

The snare is not the problem. I mike it and put some of that into the mix, it's the damn cymbals in terms of volume. The other issue we have at the usual place we play, is we get a nasty stage resonance problem right around 60hz which limits the amount of 'thump' we can get from the bass drum. (I have to notch out the 60hz area or it feeds back like crazy)

I'm not really a sound engineer, I was recruited by friends because they knew of my interest in audio, and thought I'd have 'good' ears. It's been a steep learning curve, but I think I'm getting the 'hang' of it, as we say down here in the south.

Unfortunately, I'm so busy now w/ this pharmacy school thing that I can't really do it much now. One of my bands has a gig next week and I had to find them a replacement, because there's no way I can stay up until 2:00 AM all weekend.

[JoshK]

I heard a little bit of this album on the radio last night.  I was going to pick up my wife from the airport and heard about 4 songs.  The first of which was excellent.  Almost progressive and really thrash like their roots.  The second song was a bit more mellow and was ok.  The next two songs sucked and sounded like their other new stuff. 

My wife said, about the last two songs, "sounds like completely generic metal."  So I have mixed feelings about checking this one out.

I see now that the tune I thought was good was Broken, Beat & Scarred .  One of the lame generic crappy songs was The Judas Kiss.  Didn't catch the names of the other two.

[PeteG]

I see Bestbuy will have it in vinyl. I hope it's like the new coldplay album you get the CD with the LP.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8990158&type=product&id=1896576

[nathanm]

Now there's an interesting question: is the mix for the vinyl the same peak-limited slab for the CD? Hmmm. 

[nathanm]

Jeezus!  This sounds like a blown speaker. It's not the usual crappy low bitrate MP3 sound, it sounds like electronic overload.  Every transient is mashed into a fuzzy mess.  I hope the real thing ain't this crunchy, I hope they just made the preview suck so as to discourage copying.  (you know how they are about that kinda thing )  Other than the distorted mix, it's okay I guess.  Josh's wife may be onto something, though.
 
http://www.metallica.com/index.asp?item=601197