[viggen]

I am a bit confused as to which direction I should move towards at the moment in terms of my digital source.  Maybe the Circle can help me out.

I've been using this 5 year old Scott Nixon DAC with external PSU.  This unit sounds great to my ears although the signal is inverted. 

And, recently, I took a chance on a DIY Paradise USB Monica.  This unit doesn't sound that great to my ears, but I really want to like it.  Everything I've read about the DAC on the web pretty much describes what I want in an USB DAC.  So, my gf offered to buy it for me and even to design something on the wood enclosure.  So, yah, I really want to like it but it's not performing up the old Nixon DAC in my system. 

If I am to describe their sounds, the Nixon sounds like a grand baby piano and the Monica sounds like an acoustic guitar.  Nixon has greater depth, range, impact while Monica sounds airy but a bit thin almost like it has a twang-southern drawl. 

Anyways, the logical thing to do is to tell the gf that I want to get another Nixon DAC.  I am sure she won't be happy about this.  However, here's the curve ball, I hate the way Nixon DACs look.  And, the Audio Sector DACs I've seen here and there on the web looks great.  I have no idea how it sounds though.  And, I can't find any write ups on this DAC other than the 6moons review of the DAC-1 which is SPDIF.

I thought having USB to I2S input is a big deal which is why I went with the Monica.  However, I am not so sure anymore. 

The Nixon does have an external PSU which greatly improved the DAC's performance.  I also rewired the DAC with 47Labs OTA wire and coated just about everything inside with the carbon laqcuer stuff I got from Reference Audio Mod.  The innards of the Monica looks a bit intimidating to me, so I am leaving it alone for now.  DIY Paradise is also working on an external PSU. I can get that too as an option and hope that piece will bring the Monica's performance up. 

But, for right now, I am so much enjoying listening to CDs using the Nixon DAC than listening to CDs ripped to my harddrive using the USB Monica.

For reference, I rip everything with EAC to WAV, play with Foobar version 9 something and have ASIO4ALL and Thinkpad X60 Tablet with 1gig ram and a NEC cd-rom as transports.

I think the Audio Sector will really match my amp, a Greatech muVac, aesthetically, and did I mention how good I think the Audio Sector amp looks?

[EchiDna]

wish I could help from experience with all of that lot

I've heard the Monica with an independent power supply (DIY built) which was very nice, but I've never heard a scott nixon or Audio Sector DAC so can't help with the comparison on sound.

if aesthetics are a key point but the DIY DAC's (Nixon, Monica etc) work for you, either make a new case or have one made to suit. there are some nice boxes available off the shelf from places like DIY HiFi Supply in HK and many others...

[Gordy]

viggen, have you read this review by pardales??  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=56975.0

[BobM]

A lot of people seem to like the Monica. I built one and thought it had a very nice midrange and a gren ... if you liked simple acoustic music without huge dynamics or the need for "speed". I think that is a fairly common criticism of NOS DAC's. I typically like a bit more leading edge and the ability to go big when needed without congestion.

I recently heard the new Bryston DAC and it is truly wonderful. It has the ability to turn oversampling on and off right on the front panel, which is a unique feature as far as I can tell. It's not as cheap as the Monica, but it really seems to do everything right (no, I don't own it).

Enjoy,
Bob

[viggen]

Hi EchiM, Yes the mids on the Monicas are pretty good. It's the highs that I don't like.  The mid bass is pretty flimsy too.  At first with music that is more complex or with more bass, the highs shrilled and twanged.  I think the highs just lack resolution.  At first I thought this was my amp not providing enough juice to the speakers as I just got bigger speakers.  After swapping the Nixon back into the system, there is no more shrill or twang.  Maybe the DIY Paradise external PSU will improve the Monica.  It is currently using a Kodak wallwart supplied by DIY Paradise.  Regarding cases, I am not too good with DIY tho...My Monica came fully assembled within a wood enclosure that looks sorta like a coffin. 

Gordy, I did read that post.  I remember the Altmann was the cat's meow while back.  But, I crossed that off my list as I was dead set on converting to PC audio hence wanting USB input.  And, the last poster on that thread posted a pic of his incoming Audio Sector DAC.  It looks great to my eyes...  I am greatly pushed towards the Audio Sector because of that thread.  But, I lack points of references that will tell me I will like that DAC more than both the Monica and Nixon.  Plus, I can't find information on that DAC such as whether the input is USB to I2S or even its out the door cost.  I've seen a few SPDIF models sold for about $300 second hand.

BobM:  I've been using the Nixon DAC for 5 years and think I am pretty dead set on using NOS DACs. Atleast in my system, the Nixon provides me with lots of dynamics without congestion.  Then again, my system is pretty small.  I use a muVac amp which only provides 1 wpc driving a pair of JMR EVO 3 and my bedroom is on the small side compared to most listening rooms.  With the Nixon, I get enough dynamics.  Previous DACs I've tried include CAL, CI Audio, Meridian, Parasound to name a few and those provided more what I call pyrotechnics which I thought didn't sound natural to me at all except for maybe the CAL Alpha.  I will go read up on the Bryston.  That ovesampling switch sounds nifty.

Adding to what I said, I did contemplate whether the Monica needed to be driven by a preamp as I plug the DACs I have directly into the amp which has a built in passive attenuator.  I have an old Accuphase E202 which I plugged the Monica into and used the pre-outs to connect to the muVac.  The sound did stiffen up ever so lightly.  Also, I did use the Accuphase as the main amp too.  It provides something like 160wpc to 4ohms.  My speakers are 4ohms 88db.  The sound is more digital sounding this way compared to using the muVac but not in any way more controlled.  It's amazing what that 1 watt amp can do.

Also, originally, I wired my entire system with 47 Labs' OTA wire including the AC cords.  I replaced the SC with Audioquest Argent, PC with Eichmann II, and Interconnect with DNM Reson.  The Monica just doesn't seem to like the OTAs much.  The OTA/Monica combo is just too thin sounding.  I'd like to put the OTAs back into my system.  Previously, they've been the most high resolution cable solution I've heard in my system second to only Ridge Street's Poeimas.  At their price delta, I can live with the OTAs.  I did only recently acquire the DNM Reson after I got the Monica.  Hard to tell at the moment since I got new DAC and speakers in a short time period, but these RCAs sound pretty good to me.  A bit smoother than the OTAs with emphasis in the mids.

[pardales]

Peter Daniel, the designer and builder of the Audiosector DAC which comes in either SPDIF or USB, says that the USB version of his DAC converts directly to i2s. I asked him about this before I bought mine. This might be worth a try for you. He can put the unit in some very nice looking enclosures.

That said, since you like the Scott Nixon you have, it stands to reason that you would like one of his new USB creations. Do pay attention of your aesthetic desires, they do matter.

[viggen]

Hi Pardales:  May I ask whether your DAC came fully assembled like the one image linked on the last post in your Audio Sector thread?  And, when you ordered from Peter Daniel, were you offered any options?  I read he has "premium" DAC board with more blackgates in one of his threads on DIYforum.  That thread was like 2 years old though.  I don't know what other options he might also offer.  I want to keep my cost down.  But, I don't want to skimp on caps and the PSU.  Also, about how much did your DAC cost?  I can't find any cost information on the USB DAC.

[WGH]

I have been using a Scott Nixon Tube DAC with the 3Xac power supply for 2 years but I found I was listening to CD's less and less. The Scott Nixon is pleasant enough and with the right speakers it might be magical, but my speakers go down to 25Hz and the little box didn't have the drive I was looking for. The top end also lacked a bit of life too.

I am mostly an old vinyl guy and records always sounded better than the shrill, biting CD players I owned. So I set up a music server, ripped all my CD's to the computer and stream the music through the USB buss to a HagUSB to the NOS Scott Nixon. Well the shrillness is gone, the sound is OK, but something is still missing. My previous DAC, a California Audio Labs System 1 made in 1992 still sounded clearer to these ears.

I now have a new Van Alstine Insight DAC and it's sound is just perfect, more refined and smoother than the CAL, great bass with no bloat, and clear highs. I hate to say it but the sound of my CD's now equals what I hear on vinyl. All the musical cues previously hidden by the Scott Nixon unit come to life and the sound stage is wider and deeper too. You even get a 30 day trial with AVA gear but I am not sending mine back, it's a keeper.

Wayne

[PSP]

Hi,
From a recent e-mail from Peter Daniel, in which I asked about options for his USB DAC:

USB DAC kit is $250, transformer additional $30 and Cardas dual RCA $20

Hope this helps!
Peter

[pardales]

I did not have any options besides USB input and the cost was $380 (assembled by Peter). The assembled SPDIF version costs even less. Just email Peter through his site, he is very nice to talk to.

[Jon L]

I took a chance on a DIY Paradise USB Monica.  This unit doesn't sound that great to my ears, but I really want to like it. 

Does your Monica have the SS I/V stage?  If not, that might solve your scale and bass problem.
http://diyparadise.com/web/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=95&Itemid=1

Through my travels, I really do not put too much stock that PC audio must be done via USB or that I2S->USB is the holy grail.  At all, actually.  Same goes for NOS DAC's, which can be made to sound great but often takes *more* than the usual commercial offerings provide, especially in terms of output stages and power supplies. 

If one's experience with non NOS DAC's doesn't include some of the better recent efforts, one's view is unfairly colored towards oversampling DAC's, which can sound unbelievable these days.  Bryston BDA is an oversampling DAC, and unlike previous posts, its oversampling cannot be turned off (as far as I know).  It does have selectable *upsampling" that provides both synchronous and asynchronous upsampling, and more importantly, upsampling bypass option (but still with oversampling I presume).  For its $2000 MSRP, it seems to be one of the few that gets most aspects, including output stage and PS, correct. 

P.S.
If you are using foobar 0.9x, I don't believe you can ever achieve superior PC audio playback, ASIO or not.  Unless you're stuck with Vista, try 0.8.3 version, or possibly better yet, the cPlay, which is a royal nightmare in practicality, but sounds really pure and clear.
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=34827&highlight=cplay

[viggen]

Hi WGL:  Your Rustic door designs are very nice.  I would try the Insight out but for two reasons.  I am sort of stuck on getting USB DAC for the novelty factor.  And, since I owned the 47 Labs Gaincard which was my fave amp for many years, I sort of like owning small components.  It also helps since I scatter my audio components across my odd size coffee tables and not owning any standard audio component shelves.  So, in my case, I am guilty of function follows form. 

However, since I got the Gaincard and Nixon DAC, I designed my system to be least connections the better.  Every time I removed something from the system such as AC filters, binding posts and various cables other than OTA wires, the resolution improved.   The philosophy here is there is less between the speaker and signal.  Sorry for digressing.  But, that is sort of my half assed excuse to not try out the Insight.  I perused the Insight thread and found people really believe the new line is very good. 

PSP:  Thanks for the 411.  I will contact Peter shortly to get the skinny.  Are you close to getting this Audio Sector DAC for yourself?

Pardales:  I just wanted to get an idea of his offerings and what level I am at in terms of me wanting to purchase his DAC at the moment.  The aesthetics is quite nice.  And, your description of the DAC relative to the Attraction DAC is very helpful.  I will contact Peter himself through his website shortly.  I just wanted to get some more opinions from the circle first.  Also, I feel obliged to ask my gf's opinion since she sort of has a hand in my DAC selection at the moment...  I showed her the pic of the DAC that is linked to your thread.  She doesn't like the way it looks.  She says it looks "unfinished".  I told her I like it that way since I can easily modify anything.  This is important since I find the Monica a bit hard to modify (at my skill level).  I just want to do easy mods like I did to the Nixon such as replacing the wires with OTA and coating the chips with C37 laquer.  I really liked how this mod changed the Nixon's sound.

Jon:  My Monica is suppsed to be the latest.  Everything the Monica 3 has is also in my USB Monica including the SS I/V, 4 BG in the output section etc etc.  The Kodak wall wart is the higher voltage (25v?) variety that the DIY Paradise forum recently adopted to using.  I hooked up my Nixon PSU to the USB Monica, and all I get out of it is some faint music and lots of static.  Perhaps this is because the PSU only outputs 12v.  They are both DC output as far as I know.  I was really hoping the Nixon PSU would work with the Monica to get a taste of it being driven by something better than the wall wart.  I totally agree with you that the NON-OS DAC seems to need better PSU before it.  Probably only the motor PSU upgrade to my turntable (I have already sold) benefited more.  And, because I don't have a good PSU for the Monica, that just might be the DAC's achilles heal.  DIYParadise is working on the "AC/DC" PSU.  Yeo in email to me did say it improves the Monica by a wide margin.

My laptop is XP Pro which I've read is the worst OS for music playback.  I will play with the various media players you suggested this evening.

[mcullinan]

Im an owner of a Bryston BDA-1 DAC and it is the best Ive heard. I once had a Lavry DA-10 and this blows it away. I havent tried the USB yet, but it has plenty of connection possibilities plus remote! Balanced top to bottom and even though it upsamples it isnt aggressive like many upsampling DACS. But you get the detail and dynamic slam that many NOS DACs miss. Id at least check out this possibility. 
Mike

[PSP]

I will be sending Peter Daniel the money on Tuesday.  I'm buying the SPDIF version because I don't have the computer option set up (yet). 

I kind of agree with your gf... it's not pretty (except to audiophiles, of course)... I think I'll build a nice wood box for it (eventually).

I'll let you know what I think, in a month or so.

Take care,
Peter

My System: 
Speakers = Linkwitz Orions,
Preamp = Aspen GK-1R (Platinum mods)
Amps:  Tweeters = Aspen LifeForce 25w, Mids = Aspen LifeForce 55w, Woofers = 2 x AKSA 100w Nirvana+
Source = Denon DVD-1930CI DVD-A/SACD/CDP/DVD, DAC = Stock ART DI/O w Stancor power supply

[viggen]

Hi Mcullinan:  Found your Bryston DAC thread here, http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58404.msg517968.  My budget wouldn't allow such a nice DAC at the moment.  Definitely looks tempting. 

Peter:  Please do share your experience with us.  What does the rest of your system look like?

As for my questions, I found some of the answers here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1562574#post1562574

[musicman06]

Another NOS DAC is the MHDT Labs Paradisea which has a tube buffer output stage. Available in USB as well. People have said it sounds similar if slightly better than the Audiosector DAC. I don't think it looks too bad. I don't have the USB version though the SPDIF sounds pretty decent. I've posted before about preferring the Paradisea+ to my NuForce AVP-16, which is a respected unit with bypass for its sub thousand dollar price.


I'm still pondering all the options on usb converters and DACs as I'd like to bypass the computer coax connection I'm currently using.

[boead]

I really like the Scott Nixon too. I had the original tube USB/DAC and recently had it upgraded by Scott. I also have the external power supply. The Nixon is VERY musical, lacks some detail and resolution but throws a nice, tight soundstage, strong bass and again is enjoyable to listen too.
 
The guy that I bought the original DAC from went the gamut trying many DAC’s, all the ones you are toying with and the Bell Canto (I believe) too. In the end he contacted me to see if I wanted to sell the Scott Nixon back to him or he was just going to buy another one from Scott (waiting list). The Nixon is the best but its by far one of most musical.

[viggen]

Last week I rewired my system with all Audioquest cables (cables I haven't used in years but dug out of my closet out of desperate attempt to improve the sound of the Monica) as this sounded better with the Monica.  Two nights ago, I plugged the Nixon back into the system and liked the sound more.  Lastnight, I rewired all the OTAs back into the system, and I've been listening to music all lastnight and this morning.  I've only acquired my current speakers 2 weeks ago.  So, this is the first time I listened to my system in original configuration with the new speakes.  And, it sounds great. 

Anyways, to me, the Nixon really sounds like a NOS DAC to my ears.  And, the only reason why I haven't replaced the Nixon DAC with an USB DAC of the same make is perhaps an aesthetic one.  I know this sounds stupid to most, but the way the components look is important to me.  Anyways, I hope the Audio Sector will be an upgrade in sound quality and aesthetics from the Nixon.  I contacted Peter Daniel through his website and am waiting for his response.

And, I have been looking at the MHDT for quite some time.  I haven't pulled the trigger on it because the acrylic case is not pretty in my opinion.  The MHDT DAC's guts do look much more substantial than that of Nixon's and Monica's.  It has bigger caps and cores all around, and I suspect this does translate to better sound.  The reviews I've seen have been positive to say the least. I haven't really read anything that has convinced me that this DAC will be more suitable in my system tho.

Anyways, whenever I hear back from Peter Daniel, I will ask him how I can ensure the DAC he will probably eventually sell me can match my current amp aesthetically and will be an improvement over the Nixon.  The Sector has an onboard bobbin PSU.  I wonder if this is as good or better than that of Nixon's external PSU.  And, I just perused many many pages on DIYaudio.  There is a more expensive version with Vcap insted of BG caps.  I will ask him about that too. 

Still learning...

After all this is said and done, I have to come to the possibility that the NEC CD Rom I bought on Ebay for $14 is a better transport than my Thinkpad.  And, my laptop as transport implementation using XP, EAC, Foobar is inferior to the CD rom playing those shiny discs.  I always thought the shiny discs is a major detriment to digital audio sound.  Perhaps the PC audio implementation I am using is a greater culprit.  And, if this is indeed true, then this would suck as I spent weeks ripping CDs to my external notebook drive and months reading up on how to implement PC audio properly.  So, another USB DAC for experiment is greatly needed. 

If the XP OS is my weakness, I perhaps have to buy Vista.  I abhor Apple and will not dl Itunes... I think those "I am a Mac" ads are insulting.

[DaveC113]

viggen, try downloading ASIO For All and the ASIO plugin for foobar. They are all free, and should bypass the Windows K-Mixer which is supposed to be the major issue with XP. From researching computer servers, many think a properly configured XP machine is the way to go....

I've been ripping my collection to HD as well... currently using an old Audio Alchemy DTI (reclocker) and XDP (I2S input DAC), but wondering if its comparable in quality to the Nixon or Audio Sector DACs. I have jrebman's Devilsound DAC, and the AA gear is better, but the Devilsound is fairly inexpensive at $229 on sale. I'd like to try an Audio Sector, but am afraid it might not be an improvement... The DTI has  2 inputs, so I might just get a USB to SPDIF converter until I have the cash to audition more expensive gear...

Dave

[viggen]

Hi Dave: I already installed ASIO4ALL and the Foobar plugin.  To tell you the truth, I can't really hear the before and after difference.  Maybe a tiny difference but might be placebo effect. 

I read in various forums some authored by Gordon of Wavelength that regardless of using ASIO4ALL, the sound generated from a XP PC as transport is still inferior to that of Apple and Vista PC. 

I did buy a Mac Mini to play with a few years back.  I used the headphone out to hook up to my Sony powered speaker and my stereo.  And, the sound was not half bad.  I thought either the OS or the soundcard did something much better than what my Thinkpad was doing.  I couldn't really tell which it was.  I returned the Mac Mini as I really only bought it as a cheap PC TV solution.  The computer kept freezing as it couldn't handle higher def H.264 files.  I replaced it with a Sony Vaio.  It is one with Raid 5 HD implementation and fanless heat pipe solutions.  Originally, I bought it to use as an Audio PC.  But, it is doing very well as a TV and web browsing TV, so I don't want to move it.