[emac]

Earlier this week, Laserman was kind enough to let me stop by briefly while on my way to New Jersey, and we had the chance to compare 2 of Danny Richie’s recent monitor creations, the Neo 2X and the Onix Reference 1’s with the new Ninja crossover (which was designed by Danny).  Actually, my speakers aren’t exactly the Ninja modded Ref 1’s.  I have the Reference 1.5’s, which are the floor standing version of the Ref 1’s.  The 1.5’s are basically the same speaker but with better bass response.  I also pair the 1.5’s with Onix ERT Supertweeters to help out with the highs.  So, the Ref 1.5’s with ERT’s are the Ref 1’s with better highs and the lows. 

And before I compare them, here are the links to our reviews of both speakers:
Laserman’s review of the Neo 2X:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58321.0
Emac’s review of the Ninja modded Ref 1.5’s with ERT’s: http://www.av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=34426


So, let’s move on to the comparison between the speakers.  We started off by listening to the Neo 2X’s.  They were being run by a Rega Apollo cdp, Bryston BP25 Pre, Aragon 8008BB in balance mode, and with a Vandersteen 2W sub.  Simply put, the Neo’s were terrific.  They really make music sound like music.  The two things that impressed me the most were the richness of the sound and their ability to portray the nuances of instruments.  Instruments sounded exactly like they would if they were being played in front of me.  Every last detail of the sound like echoes and vibrations was clear and present.  But, while all of the sound was there, it wasn’t thin or flavored.  Just realistic and musical.  I haven’t heard monitors sound like this previously, and I commented to Laserman multiple times that this was the first time that I really liked a pair of monitors.  I usually prefer the sound of planars or open baffle speakers, but the Neo’s give an amazing musical presentation that is very engaging.

After being very impressed with the Neo’s, I knew the Refs were going to have difficulty competing with them.  Don’t get me wrong, the Refs are very strong speakers (previously my favorite monitor style speaker), but I’d never heard that kind of musicality or nuance from them in my system.  And, not surprisingly, the Refs couldn’t compete with the Neo’s on vocal or instrumental tracks.  While they sounded rich, clean and pleasant, the nuance was just lacking.  It was like the Refs could reproduce 90-95% of the music very well, but they missed the nuances of the instruments.  The Refs were very good, but couldn’t compare to the greatness of the Neo’s. 

So, clearly the Neo’s are better than the Ninja modded Ref 1.5’s with ERT’s.  And it’s time for me to dump the Refs in favor of the Neo’s, right?  Well, in my case, it’s probably a good idea in the future, but I’m not in a huge rush.  There are a couple of reasons for this.  First, since the Refs are floor standers, they can get by without a sub, but the Neo’s really can’t.  The Refs certainly sound better with a sub, but it’s not a necessity as it is for the Neo’s.  Second, the Ninja mods come with a Diffraction Be Gone.  In my opinion, the Diffraction Be Gone is a good option for the Refs.  For this comparison, we agreed that the sound was fuller and the soundstage larger without the Diffraction Be Gone, but in my listening room, I’ve found I like the added precision they give the Refs.  So, I like having a simple way of changing the way the sound is presented.  Third, and most importantly for me, I listen to a lot of electronic music, which only rarely uses actual instruments.  Most electronic music is processed and precise, focusing on cleanness rather than nuance.  And when we compared the Refs to the Neo’s for this type of music, it was a toss up between the speakers.  They sounded pretty similar, which is to say, they both sounded excellent.  So, I don’t need to run out and upgrade.  But if I were deciding between the Neo’s and the Ninja’ed Refs, I’d definitely go with the Neo’s, which are the best monitors I’ve heard yet. 

Congrats to Danny for designing such a terrific speaker in the Neo 2X’s. 

[Danny Richie]

Thanks for the feedback on the comparisons.

I'll like to note a couple of things. One might help you take your Ninja modded Ref 1.5's up a notch.

While the ERT tweeter may add a sense of air and space to the presentation they also play low enough in range to cancel output from the main tweeter even down into the 6 to 8kHz range. There is really no way around this. In some frequency ranges the two tweeters couple (add more output), but it will also cause a dipped area as deep as 15db or more in other areas. Moving it forward or backward across the top of the speaker will allow you to shift the areas of gain and cancellation around a little.

My advise it to try facing it towards the rear wall. This will still add the sense of air and space without causing dips in the on axis response. You might find that you like this much better.

The other thing to note is that the Neo-2X can be built into a small floor standing speaker just like the Ref series speaker. Right now it is in a .5 cubic foot sealed box. A 1.0 to 1.2 cubic foot ported box will get you a -3db down point at about 40Hz not including any room gain. So there is always that option.

Thanks again for your feedback. I think you were pretty spot on with it.

[laserman]

Great write up on the two speakers.

OBTW, since you left the Ref 1.5.s here for me to play with, I did try reversing the ELT's (before reading Danny's comments) and did like the overall sound a little better.  Gina listened to both and like you, liked the Neo's over the Ref's but she said she could live with the Ref's over others I have rolled through that system.

Drive safe and sound,
Lou

[emac]

Thanks for the feedback on the comparisons.

I'll like to note a couple of things. One might help you take your Ninja modded Ref 1.5's up a notch.

While the ERT tweeter may add a sense of air and space to the presentation they also play low enough in range to cancel output from the main tweeter even down into the 6 to 8kHz range. There is really no way around this. In some frequency ranges the two tweeters couple (add more output), but it will also cause a dipped area as deep as 15db or more in other areas. Moving it forward or backward across the top of the speaker will allow you to shift the areas of gain and cancellation around a little.

My advise it to try facing it towards the rear wall. This will still add the sense of air and space without causing dips in the on axis response. You might find that you like this much better.

The other thing to note is that the Neo-2X can be built into a small floor standing speaker just like the Ref series speaker. Right now it is in a .5 cubic foot sealed box. A 1.0 to 1.2 cubic foot ported box will get you a -3db down point at about 40Hz not including any room gain. So there is always that option.

Thanks again for your feedback. I think you were pretty spot on with it.

Thanks, Danny.  Thus far, I've been playing around more with room placement and modding my electronics rather than repositioning the ERT's.  They didn't cause any problems with the stock Ref 1.5's, but different room, different XO.  So, I'll give that a shot.  I also have to play around with the DBG's as well, and see if I prefer the Refs with or without them.  When I first tried the Refs without the DBG's, I preferred the sound with them on, but that was a couple of months back when I was still burning the Refs in.

Out of curiosity, Danny, how much of a difference is there with Sonicap Platinums as the bypass caps?  I'd imagine better speed and timing, but I wanted to get your take on them.  Thanks.   

And, Lou, I think it's worth reiterating what you, your wife, and myself feel about the Ninja'ed Refs.  They are terrific speakers.  On a scale of 1-10, I'd give them a solid 8 (sorry, I score accurately, no grade inflation here).  And for me, that's very high for a monitor (or monitor style) speaker and is higher than most others that I've heard.  It's just that the Neo's raise the bar and get an 8.5 or 9.  As an aside, I likely wouldn't give out a 10 unless someone had a gun to my head or God created the perfect speaker.  And even then, I'd probably be stingy and call it a 9.9 or something.   

[emac]

As an update, I placed the ERT's so they are firing backwards towards the wall.  Nice results.  The highs seem a bit more balanced, and it also addressed an issue I was having where the left speaker seemed to be more detailed than the right.  Must have been a cancellation in there that I figured was a room problem, not from the ERT's.  Go figure. 

Thanks for the suggestion, Danny.