It is good to take time for a reality check once in a while.....

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tubesforever

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After working on my Clarinet and Cornet2 for 7-8 months time, I needed to have time to actually compare these pieces to what is out there on the used market.  Stuff that was A rated by the audio rags. 

I have had the good fortune in my life to own or retail a variety of midfi and high fidelity products.  Also, I have traveled around a bit in the last two years to hear other peoples systems and compare my turntables and electronics.  Sometimes in head to head comparisons.

Here is my Cornet2 althought I do have a couple of changes to report:


I have removed one FT-3 bypassing the first 47uf B+ cap nearest the rectifier.  It is not necessary. 

I have mounted both FT-3 to the board for the incoming signal cap.  In the picture it shows only the left side mounted to the board.

The unit now shows just 8 FT-3 Russian Teflons and I have removed the Dynamicaps on the side boards and replaced these with 0.22uf Russian K40Y9 caps for the B+ bypasses.  I like this change for how it effects timbre.

Getting back to the reality check, some of the phono sections I have heard include the Pass Xono, the Manley Steelhead, the Wave Light, the Krell, the Lamb, the Plinius, and the Thor.  These are recent enough auditions that I feel I can adequately relate the differences between the units.

First I am not trying to impune any particular manufacturer or state that the systems I heard were fully optimized.  Audio is a constantly evolving hobby and things we learn and change along the route are what make this a fun way to spend our time and money.  I am sure a lot of us would be happy owning any of these brands.

As for the Pass Xono.  Expect speed and detail.  This thing is superbly fast however I found its overall sound quality to be tight and dry.  I like detail but I do not care for an analytical sound.  That is how I heard it play - dry and analytical.  When a Trombone blats out a note it should not sound like a plastic toy instrument.  I need to hear the flesh and blood of the performance.  I felt I was listening in black and white.

The Manley Steelhead is one awesome piece for those that need to do everything at the listening seat with remote control capability.  While being a shade less analytical than the Pass Xono I still felt that bass lines lacked the grunt and growl I hear at a live performance.  It was there but subdued.  It also seemed to lack a fully three dimensional soundstage which is not something I would have expected.  Last, the highs sounded more like white noise than like actual instrument harmonics.

The Wave Light is a currious piece.  I really wanted to hear it side by side against my Clarinet/Cornet2 combination but time prevented me from doing so.  I would describe the overall sound to be more like the Hagerman than like the Pass or the Manley.  I understand these Wave Lights are hideously expensive.

The Krell phono was in a Krell preamp and the combination was very engaging and very neutral.  I liked the sound a great deal with Roland balanced mono amps.  However the Krell is a tough piece to match.  If you go with a Krell amp, it ends up sounding a bit bright and edgy.  If you mix and match the sound is all over the map.  The Krell takes a lot of time and effort to get sounding right.  When you do, it can hold its own with other superb vintage high end pieces like the CAT.

The Lamb was a real disappointment in my line of thinking.  The sound was like you were standing in the hallway leading to the performance hall.  I just thought to myself who at Stereophile felt this deserves an A rating?  I am shocked.  They described the sound as dark and laid back.  I describe it as dull and uninvolving.

The Plinius was compact and easy to set up but it sounded two dimensional and lacked the effortless dynamics of my Hagerman pieces.  We played back and forth for several hours and every time the C2 was playing, the vocals were clearer, cleaner, and the overall performance had more realism.

The Thor is not a cheap piece.  Like the Pass Xono or the Manley these retailed at more than 6000 dollars when new.  The Hagerman got lower in the bass registers, had a lot more width and midrange detail, the overall timbre of the instruments was better with the C2.  The stand out attribute was the dynamics.  The slam and drive were far better with the C2.  Interestingly, in spite of having better upper midrange and highs my Cornet2 actually displayed LESS sibilance and was more linear from top to bottom.

The C2 created quite a stir during my trips.  No one thought this Hagerman could stand up to a Lamb or Thor.  No problem at all actually.  The C2 surpassed both by a comfortable margin.  The bottom line is that my slightly modified C2 beat out some big names out there. 

In summary here is how I would describe my C2.  It was as fast as the quickest phonos out there.  Listen to a Pass Xono or a Manley if you can.  I matched up identically.

In dynamics, space, and slam the C2 had no peers.  It was heads above all comers.   

In terms of timbral accuracy the C2 was clearly more natural and in fact everyone recognized just how linear this thing sounds from top to bottom.  There is no weak area in the sound stage at all. 

Bass drum, kick drum, percussion instruments and bass guitar have a natural growl and slam that can knock you out of your seat. 

One important point I find extremely important is that no matter how poor the recording, the C2 allows me to enjoy every side of an LP with more satisfaction for the time spent.

Negatives?   It took me 7 months to find all the magic I was after. 

Positives?  I am no longer interested in hearing phono stages or different brands.  Now I am into tube rolling and playing music.  I am one satisfied customer and Jim Hagerman is both a genius and a gentleman. 

Thanks go out to everyone here who lent information and support.  I absorbed it all and made my Hagerman into one awesome performer.
« Last Edit: 26 Aug 2008, 06:39 am by tubesforever »

ronpod

tubes,
What tubes have you rolled through?

tubesforever

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Tubes.....

For the 12AU7 tube I have an RCA cleartop, a couple of 50's issue Mullards, a couple of SupraTeks, a couple of different Philips, a Sovtec, a JJ Tesla, GE 60's issue gray plates, and some Raytheon tubes.

For the 12AX7 tubes I have one 50's issue Mullard, a couple of Groove Tube Mullard reissues, the Shungang, SupraTeks, Philips, Sovtec LPS, and some GE variants which I forget the number. 

I found that tube rolling with the Hagermans is sheer bliss.  You can easily mix and match the 12AX7 tubes to get just what you need to balance the sound.

On some systems I had to go really warm and syrupy thick, on others I needed something light and airey.  In just a few minutes I could get the Cornet2 to sound linear top to bottom with great 3D imaging.

Future plans are for more of the GE 12AX7 variants plus some Buggle Boy and Orange Globe Amperex tubes. 

Right now I have the Mullard 12AU7's in my Clarinet, and a Raytheon in the C2.  The 12AX7's are one of the GE variants and one of the Mullards. 

NOS tubes are a kick!

analog97

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Hi Tubes:

Quote
The bottom line is that my slightly modified C2 beat out some big names out there.


After looking at the picture of your build, I quibble with the term "slightly modified".    :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

I would love to hear this compared to my Cornet2 (Auricap/better RCA's only mods).  Let me know when you travel to Pittsburgh!!

BobM

for the cost of all those mods I would think you could have had a Trumpet, which I think Jim will concur, should still beat out even a highly modded Coronet. it sure beat mine in every way, which is why I own one now.

enjoy,
Bob

tubesforever

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We should separate a couple of things in the discussion.  First, selecting any particular passive component of the same value as the manufacturer's recommended passive component is technically NOT a modification.  It is simple parts selection.

In terms of modifications I performed, I am using Vampire direct gold plated oxygen free copper chassis RCA's.  These are 20 bucks a pair and I am using 4 pair, so I have three inputs and one output.  Definitely a modification since they are not PCB mounted.

I have two Carsten electronics four pole three postion switches so I can select from inputs one two and three, and so I can flip the stage L/R to R/L from the front panel.

I did this simply because I plan to use a professional equipment stand in the future and access to the rear of the unit might be a real pain.

Putting the power switch up front was important for this same reason.  It required that I twist and then shield the power cord to keep the C2 silent.  Definitely a mod.

I suspect that adding a parallel cap to the final output position looks like a modification, but it is actually just like adding a parallel cap to a speaker crossover. 

Since I have less than a thousand into this box and a Trumpet costs 2,699 I figure I am ahead of the game.  Also, if the Trumpet had been available as a kit I would have started there just for the pleasure of having balanced output.  Then again I would have needed to build two Clarinets....if that is possible.

The 7-8 months I spent spinning in and out passive parts was very helpful to me.  If anyone wants to know how to make the C2 sound less forward, or more forward, or wider soundstaging  I can definitely recommend the right parts to try first.

Finally, remember I built my C2 stock with just the AuriCap upgrade.  I can definitely tell you every part in my box is required in order to get the sound level up to a Steelhead or the Xono.  The fact that I feel I surpassed their sound quality is really a testament to Jim Hagerman who's overall design is superb in every way.

The biggest improvement to my C2 came with the addition of the FT-3 Teflon caps.

These were a kind of "well I should try these caps for myself" type of decision.  They came from the same vendor I purchased my Russian paper in oil K40Y9 capacitors.  He claimed they were his best audio cap.  These FT-3 caps elevate the C2 to a whole different performance level.

BobM

I agree with you about those Russian teflon's. I used .1uF's in my speaker crossovers as bypasses on the tweeter and it opened up a whole new world of sound. So much so that I decided to replace the input and output coupling caps in my preamp with teflon's as well (but I used Sonicap Platinums and V-Cap teflon & oil's in there). The improvements? OMG - this should be done by everyone.

Enjoy,
Bob

jcmjrt

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What value(s) of FT3s did you used for bypassing?

tubesforever

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For the Teflons you are looking for Russian FT-3 0.10uf 600V caps.  I paid under 8 bucks ordering about 16 of the caps.  I could use a dozen more so if you plan to buy some we should do a group order to cut down on the atrocious shipping fees.

The second biggest improvement was to make sure the heater voltage is between 6.0 and 6.2 volts.  Mine started at 5.9 and the bass was anemic there.

The most important sonic benefits come with the Vishay Nudes.  You can buy a version of these from the manufacturer and save a couple bucks per resistor.  You only need about 14 for the Cornet2.  Think clarity!  My C2 was many times clearer and cleaner than a lot of the phono sections I listed above.  Vocalists were so distinctly clear you can understand a lot more of the words than before.

ronpod

Count me in if you guys are group buy the FT-3s.

Ron.

BobM

yeah, I could find a use for about 6 more of them also
Bob

mingles

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> we should do a group order to cut down on the atrocious shipping fees.

Count me in too. I could use 8 if quantity isn't an issue.

-Mark

Theo

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I could use a dozen more so if you plan to buy some we should do a group order to cut down on the atrocious shipping fees.

Group buy?  I can use a dozen 0.1 FT-3 too.

ronpod

Eight FT-3s for me.

tubesforever

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Right now we are at 46 caps.  I will do the ordering for us and charge only actual shipping from me to you.  I am not trying to be a retailer or even a distributor.  I think it is great to get a slightly better price for large orders and combine the shipping.  If anyone needs any K40Y9 PIO caps please let me know as well.  These take 5-7 weeks from the Ukraine.  I will require payment in advance of my order since we are going so large!

Please email me at jim_howard_pdx@yahoo.com.  I will have pricing for you today.